Opinions on Our Domestic Auto Industry

[Sp00ner]

Originally Posted by vandy0419

I agree, just a tad bit over. How bout this though, you want something on the "performance" side but with low gas mileage, get a Nissan, 350Z or Sentra Spec V...want something with okay gas mileage when it is almost 300hp at the crank AFTER having stuff done to the engine, get the Cobalt SS or Redline and get 25mpg.

Something over-rated? Get a RX8...we all remember what happened when those were released.

Something under-rated? Get the SS or RL

Well, the Z is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Check the price tag on one of those suckers... and then look at what you're getting. Pray you don't line up next to a new Mustang GT, or GTO in that thing, and they're 4-seat sport coupes, compared to a sport 'roadster'. Hell, the Z even weighs more than both of those cars, has 20hp less than the Mustang, and over 100 less than the GTO.

[mogs01gt]

Originally Posted by vandy0419

I agree, just a tad bit over. How bout this though, you want something on the "performance" side but with low gas mileage, get a Nissan, 350Z or Sentra Spec V...want something with okay gas mileage when it is almost 300hp at the crank AFTER having stuff done to the engine, get the Cobalt SS or Redline and get 25mpg.

Something over-rated? Get a RX8...we all remember what happened when those were released.

Something under-rated? Get the SS or RL

Actually when the 350z first came out were HIGHly overrated, over priced and under powered. The added power they have now makes a large difference. The RX8 was NEVER suppose to have any type of top speed appeal. THeir car was designed around handling and they handle perfectly. Only other car in that price range that can out handle it is probably the evo, but then again the two cars compared to each other, the EVO only has more HP and AWD. The Rx8 kills it in all other categories.

But can you really trust a Mitsubishi to be reliable? hell no.

[vandy0419]

Originally Posted by mogs01gt

Actually when the 350z first came out were HIGHly overrated, over priced and under powered. The added power they have now makes a large difference. The RX8 was NEVER suppose to have any type of top speed appeal. THeir car was designed around handling and they handle perfectly. Only other car in that price range that can out handle it is probably the evo, but then again the two cars compared to each other, the EVO only has more HP and AWD. The Rx8 kills it in all other categories.

But can you really trust a Mitsubishi to be reliable? hell no.

When the RX8 was first out, Mazda overrated the hp by a lot! They had to offer money back to the buyers or the buyer was able to get some performance things from the dealer.

[mogs01gt]

Originally Posted by vandy0419

When the RX8 was first out, Mazda overrated the hp by a lot! They had to offer money back to the buyers or the buyer was able to get some performance things from the dealer.

That was mainly for the auto's and I think it was also due to some changes to the engine setup after the advertised numbers were published. Still doesnt take away from what I was talking about. For the amount you spend, the only thing that is wrong with the Mazda is the HP outputs. Everything else is well and above its competitors.

[sidejam]

After the way I've been treated by my local Saturn dealership (Hyatt Saturn/Saab) and the way that GM Canada has treated me, I won't buy another GM ever. When I look at how much domestic cars drop in value, I'd be very hesistant to even buy a domestic. I used to always buy VW's but I thnk my next car will very likely be something Japanese.

[vandy0419]

Originally Posted by sidejam

After the way I've been treated by my local Saturn dealership (Hyatt Saturn/Saab) and the way that GM Canada has treated me, I won't buy another GM ever. When I look at how much domestic cars drop in value, I'd be very hesistant to even buy a domestic. I used to always buy VW's but I thnk my next car will very likely be something Japanese.

Well then you're just dealing with the wrong damn people, not GM in general. There are TONS of GM (Pontiac, Saturn, etc) dealerships around here that are awesome, and they don't treat you like a quick sale. As far as domestics dropping value...its just the market. The 2001-2005 Civics had HORRIBLE residual value! I checked my car out on kbb.com and for having 13000 miles on it the private party value was around $18,500...I got it from a dealership in Chicago with 9k miles for $14,900 (eBay). Next time shop around and take your time with it to see where you're happiest. Don't forget though, fixing imports can get pricey...sometimes. Especially when the parts have to come across seas and when the insurance companies find out, it might mean high insurance premiums.

[BigBrother]

You want a truly horrid dealership experience, try any of the Honda or Toyota dealers I've ever worked with OR FOR, lol. Talk about the "customer is a walking pile of money" mentality! Oh - they'll be NICE to you.... The Walrus was NICE to the oysters! Sorry you had a bad experience with Saturn, that's really not supposed to happen. Curious though - did you ever contact Saturn corporate customer care? Belive me - one word to those people, and your local dealer will have HELL to pay. Saturn corporate would rather not sell you a car then sell you one and piss you off. Seriously. If they find a dealer that's selling cars and then pissing people off - well, there are examples of whole dealership groups being taken over by corporate and sold to another owner who understands that CSI is all that matters at Saturn.

The resale value thing is all jacked up. Because of the REPUTATION imports have earned - and rightly so 15 to 25 YEARS AGO - they hold there value. But resale value SHOULD be based on total cost of ownership, not JUST percieved demand. And much of that demand IS just perception, a self fulfilling prophecy. Honda and Toyota cars continue to maintain stupid high resale values (mostly - looked at an Echo lately, lol?) because people will pay that much for them because they believe they'll get that investment back because someone else will think the same thing later!! ACTUAL TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP HAS ALWAYS FAVORED DOMESTICS AND ALWAYS WILL.

As for "what's American?".... It really is frighteningly true, debate all you want. I buy "domestic" because I'm a GM guy. I guess that means I can fly the lag a little higher, but borderline right-wing patriot that I am, that hasnothing to do with my car choices. I've owned imports as well as domestics, I buy the car I like. MOST Honda's sold in the U.S. are built here, too. Same with Toyota's. On teh Vues with the Honda V6, the sticker says the engine and powertrain are built in Japan, but the plant that produced them is in Ohio unless I've been painfully misinformed. And every year the domestics move a couple more operations to Mexico or Canada, and now that the race to open the Chinese market is well and truly on, I bet it's less thana decade befoe Chinese built "domestics" start showing up over here. And WTF is up with the Aveo?

Take the next step - the "import" companies that operate here in the U.S. don't have the UAW vicegrip on their balls. It's the costs associated with the union shit that has domestic companies moving things out!

THE UAW IS COSTING U.S. JOBS. I fuckin' DARE any union rep to TRY and argue that one with actual evidence and logic.

[Sp00ner]

Originally Posted by sidejam

After the way I've been treated by my local Saturn dealership (Hyatt Saturn/Saab) and the way that GM Canada has treated me, I won't buy another GM ever. When I look at how much domestic cars drop in value, I'd be very hesistant to even buy a domestic. I used to always buy VW's but I thnk my next car will very likely be something Japanese.

You used to buy VW's? They're one of the worst cars in the country, both in relaibility and customer satisfaction...

I don't buy a car based on the 'care' they give me. I buy based on what I want...

[mogs01gt]

Originally Posted by Sp00ner

You used to buy VW's? They're one of the worst cars in the country, both in relaibility and customer satisfaction...

I don't buy a car based on the 'care' they give me. I buy based on what I want...

They are also insanely hard to work on.

[Raskolnikov]

Originally Posted by sidejam

After the way I've been treated by my local Saturn dealership (Hyatt Saturn/Saab) and the way that GM Canada has treated me, I won't buy another GM ever. When I look at how much domestic cars drop in value, I'd be very hesistant to even buy a domestic. I used to always buy VW's but I thnk my next car will very likely be something Japanese.

Overall, and we all know this, buying a new car is NOT a sound financial decision regardless of country of origin. Who in their right mind would finance something that drops 50% in value almost instantly? Hondas and Toyotas generally hold their value better by a 5-9% margin. But when you're losing half your initial investment anyway, is that 5-9% enough to base a purchasing decision on?

Oh and to answer one of the questions above: I would, and did, because cars appeal to my stupid idiotic foolish emotions. AAAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!