Email from Laminova Regarding Dual Pass

[vandy0419]

I emailed the R&D head engineer last Wednesday in regards to his views of the dual pass ideas that have been going around vs. the standard design they had come up with.

Originally Posted by My original email:

Hello,

I am writing in regards to the laminova cores that are ran in the GM US Spec Cobalt SS and Saturn ION RL. The intake manifolds have four intercooler cores (laminova cores) and one inlet and one outlet to allow the coolant to flow through all four cores before exiting. I am thinking of adding an additional fitting in the middle of the inlet/outlet plate where coolant passes from core 2 to core 3. Then changing the stock inlet/outlet to two inlets and the new fitting to the outlet. Thus allowing each coolant flow passing through only two cores, reducing the amount of heat transfer and keeping it more efficient because the coolant starts to heat up by core 3 or 4 making it less effective. By doing this, would that be justified as a dual pass? Also, would there be any worries of pressure dropping? The current pumps on the cars are rated at 26L per minute.

The laminova cores has to be one of the best ideas GM came up with as they are very effective, just as your website states.



Thank you,

M. Vanderhorst

His response:

Dear Mr Vanderhorst,

Thanks for your interest in our products.

Sorry for my late response, it’s been very hectic lately.

To answer your questions; Routing the water the way you describe is beneficial in terms of water pressure drop, but as you wright, a slight negative impact on heat performance since the flow rate will be half through each core compared to the standard installation. But the way you want to route the water is in many application a good way to compromise between pressure loss and performance. So, in my point of view it’s fully feasible.

One comment though, since the flow rate through each core is reduced, the water will be heated up more looking at one core only compared to the standard installation, but probably not as much!

Best regards,

Mattias Antonsson
R&D/Projects
Laminova Production AB
Värmdövägen 120
SE-131 60 Nacka
Sweden
Phone: +46 8 594 765 40
Direct: +46 8 594 765 46
E-mail: mattias.antonsson@laminova.se
Web: www.laminova.se

[sheek360]

interesting to say the least. i wonder how much the dual pass and a front mounted HE affect the water pressure, especially when still keeping the stock HE.

[socalsilverRL]

wow...he actually took the time to write a real e-mail...maybe thats why the JBP i/c has a higher rate pump...

[vandy0419]

Originally Posted by socalsilverRL

wow...he actually took the time to write a real e-mail...maybe thats why the JBP i/c has a higher rate pump...

Well I think the point he was getting to is that even with a higher rate pump...you're putting two flows into one which will slow down the flow. And yea, very cool that he actually wrote back.

It's kind of like the idea that if you had one inlet and 2 outlets, each outlet will have a lesser flow than the inlet. If you have 2 inlets and 1 outlet, it will have the 2 flows coming together to fight for a way out causing it to slow the rate down.

If it was worth the cost...it sounds like changing the cores to two seperate flows requiring 2 pumps and 2 HE's, unless you use a cobra one and the stock one as your 2...

[BlkCSS]

ok i read that and i'm kinda lost here.


whats the deal with worrying about pressure?...our system is built to handle it so i dont see an issue but like i said i'm kinda lost.

over all considering that it might not heat up the fluid as bad...at least i think thats what he meens

is makeing it a dual pass a good idea or not?

[NoRemorse]

In all reality, i dont see it making a HUGE differance, nor will I believe it does with out doccumentaion.

it will speed up the coolant, meaning it spends less time in there. yes it will not beince heat soaked.... but all that means is that it is not absorbing heat!!! which means that heat stays in the air charge.

[socalsilverRL]

as long at the area of the outlet is equal to the total area of the 2 inlets you will see no pressure change. only other way to over come that pressure increase is to add a larger/stronger pump.

[sheek360]

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

In all reality, i dont see it making a HUGE differance, nor will I believe it does with out doccumentaion.

it will speed up the coolant, meaning it spends less time in there. yes it will not beince heat soaked.... but all that means is that it is not absorbing heat!!! which means that heat stays in the air charge.

damn, is there a middle ground then?

[socalsilverRL]

fwiw, why not just make a aftercooler that has 8 laminovas iin it instead of 4, i could see more benefit from that (i.e. more surface area) than just changing the flow pattern of the existing system. I mean it has to be designed that way for a reason...

[handyjoe]

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

In all reality, i dont see it making a HUGE differance, nor will I believe it does with out doccumentaion.

it will speed up the coolant, meaning it spends less time in there. yes it will not beince heat soaked.... but all that means is that it is not absorbing heat!!! which means that heat stays in the air charge.

Eh, not quite correct. Several factors are involved. Heat transfer properties of the cores, properties of the exchanger...

Argh! I can't come to a decision on this. I just need to get the equations out and do the math myself. You've got two major functions: intercooler and heat exchanger. Basically we need to figure out which is more efficent, and go from there to improve the efficency of the other object. You'll continually be limited by the efficency of the lesser object.

I need my notes...damn it all.