Why does the media love the Civic Si

[Breech]

Originally Posted by Sp00ner

Oddly enough, the two Camaros I owned were from the 80's and 90's, respectively, so it's not all that recently that I'm talking about.

Really? That's a lot of mileage out of an 80's camaro. Did you have the 2.8 six or was it a 305/350 car? My first f-body was a 1982 trans am with a cross fire injected 305. It had 63,XXX original miles on it and was a complete turd. Somewhere along the way I picked up an 85 camaro with the 2.8 and a five speed for $100 and I couldn't kill it, had like 170,000 miles on it and just wouldn't give up. Neither car had been maintained well, guess it's just luck of the draw.

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by AlphaJaguar5

Explain this to me:

S2K:
http://cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp...6&aff=national

Come on now, that's rediculous. Perception is not reality.

No offense Alpha, but you can't pick one random car on a nationwide search to back up your point (though I do agree with what you're saying at the heart, I just wanna be a pain in your ass :P). If that was the case if I wanted to rip into the perception of domestics I'd choose the guy that is trying to sell a used 2006 RL for 26 grand, so hah

[Sp00ner]

Originally Posted by Breech

Really? That's a lot of mileage out of an 80's camaro. Did you have the 2.8 six or was it a 305/350 car? My first f-body was a 1982 trans am with a cross fire injected 305. It had 63,XXX original miles on it and was a complete turd. Somewhere along the way I picked up an 85 camaro with the 2.8 and a five speed for $100 and I couldn't kill it, had like 170,000 miles on it and just wouldn't give up. Neither car had been maintained well, guess it's just luck of the draw.

My '81 had the most mileage on it, and I drove it to from Ft Myers, Fl. to Chicago, and back. It was a 305 V8 and was falling apart when I got it. With about 150,000 on it. My stepdad put a new tranny in it, since he wanted me to learn stick, and that was the only major work I knew of. It came from one of his buddies, so I'm assuming I'd know if it was a new engine. It would have been like 600hp if so... she finally threw a rod about 260,000 miles. You should have seen how I drove it too.... yikes...

The other one I still own. It had just tipped the 200,000 mark, it MIGHT be just under it. I should check before I get too carried away. It was a '90 Camaro RS with the 3.1 V6 in it. It NEVER had a major repair. Oh wait, we did have to get the tranny rebuilt, but they said it had water in the pan. (Auto, and my driveway used to flood with about 18" of water in the summer, and I would 'float' the car through) However, it still ran fine when I yanked the motor out of to drop in the V8.

[RedlineKid]

My first car was an f-body 1997 camaro 3.8 six with the 30th aniversary seats and paint job i put i chip in it. I also t-boned a car and jump a few curbs. 185,XXX three major wrecks no power steering and it still ran a 15.3 1/4 that was a great car i cant wait for the new one.

[mogs01gt]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

This is not an attack, but rather a rebuttal Explain to me then why the parts that we have put in our Toyota Corolla have lasted significantly longer than the parts we've put in our Ford Taurus (both equivalent miles etc) and explain to me why the Taurus is already having severe problems in every aspect of it, while the Corolla still runs like it's new. Granted I could have gotten a good version of the Corolla and the crappy version of the Taurus. But even with our old Saturn. The thing was a tank, but you were constantly replacing parts for it, it'd go in waves. The thing was awesome, but there was a decent amount of repairs to keep up on it. I've noticed the same basic correlation between American and foreign cars across the board.

you are talking about something totally different. Im speaking directly towards the quality of the metal/material that makes a combustion engine a combustion engine. Im not referring to maintenance or how their systems are designed. Hondas have been know for tight clearances while GMs are known for wide clearances on less say for instances the crank bearings. Back in early 90's, GM was still in the high number range for their bearing clearances while Honda has always been very tight. Now recently with competition increasing, American base car companies are increasing their tolerances and clearances to compete with the imports. If you want to talk about maintenance, fine. Quote any type of repair bill on an American car and it will be cheaper than the similar part on a foreign car. When we are talking about a 200k engine/car, I will take the cheaper repair bill anyday of the week. Took me 20 bucks to replace the water pump on my old 92 Lumina that had 186k miles on teh stock engine.

Oh and you can't tell me that the media is the reason why domestic cars depreciate an absolutely ridiculous amount for the first year of usage and foreign cars don't. Yea the media can have an affect on that, but if the cars truly were exactly the same quality, there would be more than enough people out there that would be waiting for those domestic cars to enter the resale market.

why would an american car have a high resale when they are usually at a lower price than the comparable import? Fine lets look at the Ford truck for a resale? There arent too many anything higher than what the Ford Truck holds for its resale value.

[Breech]

Originally Posted by Sp00ner

My '81 had the most mileage on it, and I drove it to from Ft Myers, Fl. to Chicago, and back. It was a 305 V8 and was falling apart when I got it. With about 150,000 on it. My stepdad put a new tranny in it, since he wanted me to learn stick, and that was the only major work I knew of. It came from one of his buddies, so I'm assuming I'd know if it was a new engine. It would have been like 600hp if so... she finally threw a rod about 260,000 miles. You should have seen how I drove it too.... yikes...

The other one I still own. It had just tipped the 200,000 mark, it MIGHT be just under it. I should check before I get too carried away. It was a '90 Camaro RS with the 3.1 V6 in it. It NEVER had a major repair. Oh wait, we did have to get the tranny rebuilt, but they said it had water in the pan. (Auto, and my driveway used to flood with about 18" of water in the summer, and I would 'float' the car through) However, it still ran fine when I yanked the motor out of to drop in the V8.

HOLY WOW!!!! 260k out of a 305......in a camaro no less......that is amazing. Nothing like the sound of a rod goin through a block, I've had the displeasure of that one myself. Oh, in respect to american auto manufacturers I guess I should add that the venerable chrysler slant 6, available in 198 cu. in. and 225 cu. in. displacements, was rated as one of the most durable motors of all time. I believe those first started poppin up in the 60's, so it's not as if we haven't been able to make motors that can put out diesel like mileage as well.

[mogs01gt]

Originally Posted by Breech

HOLY WOW!!!! 260k out of a 305......in a camaro no less......that is amazing. Nothing like the sound of a rod goin through a block, I've had the displeasure of that one myself. Oh, in respect to american auto manufacturers I guess I should add that the venerable chrysler slant 6, available in 198 cu. in. and 225 cu. in. displacements, was rated as one of the most durable motors of all time. I believe those first started poppin up in the 60's, so it's not as if we haven't been able to make motors that can put out diesel like mileage as well.

My buddies old F150 had a inline 6 in it. It had over 250k miles on it stock. He went off roading in it one day and it got flooded with water and all kinds of debris. EVEN SAND. The truck kept running like it was nothing, hell he even sold it to a friend that was still driving it a few years back.

[Breech]

Originally Posted by mogs01gt

My buddies old F150 had a inline 6 in it. It had over 250k miles on it stock. He went off roading in it one day and it got flooded with water and all kinds of debris. EVEN SAND. The truck kept running like it was nothing, hell he even sold it to a friend that was still driving it a few years back.

Hahaha, yeah, those inlines are tough. I heard that running sand through the engine is actually a good thing. I think they call it hone-as-you-go or something of the sort Helps save money come rebuild time......hehe.

[Watts-Up]

Yeah,I agree the reputation of "quality" is all from tighter tolerances on imports. At least in years past until lately. For example, if I have a honda or toyota that's hit in the front end and it's swung around with bent frame rails,I have to work 10 times as hard to get it to line up PERFECTLY, or else it wont fit,can not be re-assembled! Where with domestic cars the tolerances aren't as tight and there's MUCH more adjustment,so as long as it's close,I can make it line up and look and drive ok.

I think most of the bad rep for domestics is from the 70's through 90's. OK there were certian models that were durable,but 9 out of 10 american cars built then were really poor quality IMO. I remember alot of cars where you pull off a bumper or fender and a SATCK-O-SHIMS would fall out all over the floor I'm talking over an inch thick of shims in many cases!

I will also say that Honda has gone way down hill in quality. They are not as reliable as they used to be. You see more and more Japanese cars having more problems than they used to.My 1st car was an '81' Civic GL1500,(carburated!) That thing was unstoppable, I used to use it as a jeep and go off roading all the time! I put over 250k and gave it to a buddy who drove it to the west coast and put another 100k on it! Next was my 1st new car, an '87 integra LSS, put over 250k on it as well,gave it away because the body was done,rusting and falling apart,and I didn't want to restore it. Next was a 92 accord,had some problems with it,lots of little bullshit that would keep it from running and make you chase your tail for hours on diagnostic The tranny blew up when I was on a road trip to Florida,that's when I switched to aturn. I chose Saturn because my boss had one with 250+K miles and it was still going strong @ the time.
Yes we have come a long way,but it's going to take time to gain the reputation that has been tarnished in the years past. Sorry so long!!!I'll stop now

[Sp00ner]

Originally Posted by mogs01gt

My buddies old F150 had a inline 6 in it. It had over 250k miles on it stock. He went off roading in it one day and it got flooded with water and all kinds of debris. EVEN SAND. The truck kept running like it was nothing, hell he even sold it to a friend that was still driving it a few years back.

That old Ford I6 was a GREAT engine, this from a Camaro guy...