Many of you have been following my E-85 thread. There is a lot of good technical information in there for building a killer fuel system. Here is a link :
While that was more of a sentimental, "Iamdrunkat3inthemorning" type of thread, this thread will follow the current status of the car, and involve discussions on tuning and updates on mods.
That being said, here is exactly how the car sits right now :
2006 Saturn ION Redline (non G-85)
Motor
K&N Typhoon Cold-Air Intake
LS4 Throttle Body
Harrop TVS 1320 supercharger upgrade
2.9" pulley currently installed
79 lb/hr Lucas/Racetronix fuel injectors with EV1 harness
NGK BKR7E's gapped at .032"
GMPP Dual-pass intercooler endplate with Option B
CX Racing dual-pass heat exchanger (routed in series with stock heat exchanger with Redline Water Wetter added to fluid)
Diamond Forged pistons (9.5:1)
ARP Headstuds
Ported head (exh only) by RLF member and good friend billabong9687
Stock exhaust manifold
2.5" ZZP cat-less downpipe with custom exhaust leak
Stock cat-back
ZZP Fuel Pump Re-wire
HPTuned by myself
Suspension
Cross-drilled/slotted rotors with Hawk HPS pads
Powergrid Inc. sway bar end links
Coppertop front twin-bar subframe brace
Jason Smith front strut tower brace
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Specs 235/40/17
Visual
Tinted front corners and tail lights, tinted license plate cover, 10PENN license plate
Debadged trunk
Competition Package Gunmetal wheels with polished lip
Red painted brake calipers, matching red painted strut tower brace
Red painted spark plug cover, made to look like the stock redline badge
This thread is not intended to brag about my mod list, or compare my car to others. It is not intended to gloat about how much I know or make myself feel better. I need a thread to complete my ideas and see where I have the car, and what direction I want to take the car. This thread will also follow updates to the car, and provide insight and technical discussion to other members.
Too many people like to remain secretive about what's been done to the car, or how to figure out some things that nobody has really explored yet. This is one reason why the Cobalt/Redline community has never progressed at the rate that other platforms do. If more people shared information, we might have 400whp supercharged cars running around, or have many more members taking the platform into the 12's, 11's, and even 10's. I am sharing my experiences and knowledge to hopefully help the many new members of the Redline community, and to also further my own knowledge.
Consider my previous threads merged into this one, please.
Last edited by Tennpenn83; 02-18-2011 at 03:45 PM.
Tax return has finally hit the bank account, time to go shopping! Currently ordered are the following parts :
GMPP clutch upgrade kit, new flywheel, new bolts
ZZP Boost-Referenced Fuel System
ZZP Longtube Header, hi-flow cat, 3" Cat-back with resonator
AEM Fuel pressure gauge
Aeroforce Interceptor Dual gauge kit
6k HID Bi-Xenon kit
2.7" pulley for my TVS
Things I found out while researching and ordering parts :
1. Zooomer mentioned to me that aftermarket ARP bolts for your flywheel will not line up correctly if using a GM stock or GMPP clutch, so get the stock ones. If you go aftermarket clutch, ARP's work just fine.
2. For a fuel system, the myth is that #4 cylinder gets starved of fuel because the other 3 injectors take up the fuel in the fuel rail first, leaving less pressure or fuel for the #4 injector to spray. While some people firmly believe this, it is not the case. Pascal's law of fluid dynamics states that if any part of a hydraulic system is pressurized, the whole system will maintain the same pressure - meaning that if your fuel pump is maintaining say, 58psi, then at the Schrader valve before the fuel rail will also read 58psi, and the end of the fuel rail, if equipped with a fitting, will also read 58psi. The other three injectors will not cause a loss in fuel or pressure to #4.
What can happen is there is such a demand for fuel pressure when running high rpm, high power, is that the whole system loses pressure due to the fuel injectors using more fuel than the fuel pump can supply. This is especially apparent when running E85 on a small pulley'd TVS, where the fuel pump cannot keep up with the demands of the PCM.
So how do you solve this? Simply put, up the fuel pressure. A fuel pump rewire will ensure that the fuel pump is receiving all possible voltage that it can. After this, run your fuel system at higher pressure, as in 0TTP's RSFS or ZZP's BRFPS. When and if you still run out of pump, upgrade your pump.
3. If upgrading the fuel system, should I choose 0TTP's RSFS or ZZP's BRFPS?
This is purely choice, and the decision is yours.
ZZP's system costs less, but is less flashy, and doesn't come with a fuel pressure gauge. There is no fitting on the end of the fuel rail.
0TTP's system looks better, and includes an under-the-hood fuel pressure gauge, but costs more, and includes a fitting for the end of the fuel rail for fuel return that is really not needed.
What's the difference/similarities? Pros/cons?
Both systems raise fuel pressure under demand, 1:1 under boost. Both systems lower pressure under idle, as the vacuum in the manifold increases. 0TTP's system involves a return line from the fuel rail back to the tank, believed to stabilize the pressure across all 4 injectors. However, this is not the case, and is not even needed. The real benefit of 0TTP's system is the ability to increase fuel pressure under demand, just like ZZP's BRFPS.
After this is installed, I will update with how this affects IDC's idle, etc..
Last edited by Tennpenn83; 02-18-2011 at 06:56 PM.
After a test drive, the brights are always on, it seems. Cannot turn them off unless the lights themselves are turned off. This is likely why the fogs don't work, because the car thinks the brights are on.
Replacing your stock exhaust manifold and 2.5" dp is a great idea. That ZZP Long tube will do the job just nicely.
I completely agree with your take on the old #4 fueling myth. That rumor has been floating around these forums for way too long with no data to back it up.
How do you plan on in stalling the ZZP BRFPS system? Option 1 or option 2?
The only feedback I could give you on your build is the possibility of running a ported IM. I know the idea has been around for a few years and I dyno tested a ported IM with an M62 with basically no results. But with the amount of air that TVS is pushing it might be something to consider.
There is also the possibility of running an LS4 TB with a 3.5" CAI but between me and phil we should have that covered.
hmm good to hear ur still moddin the car man. love the list. looks like the mod list i was gonna do till i sold her.
I likely won't ever get rid of this car, with as much money as I've spent on it. I DO, however, want to pick up a Camaro later on... The new ZL1 would be nice...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMredline
Replacing your stock exhaust manifold and 2.5" dp is a great idea. That ZZP Long tube will do the job just nicely.
I completely agree with your take on the old #4 fueling myth. That rumor has been floating around these forums for way too long with no data to back it up.
I remember a company a long time ago stating that a test of the intake manifold showed inconsistencies in the airflow, favoring #4 with more air than the other 3 cylinders, but I have searched and searched for the thread and cannot find it. That would explain why #4 was going lean, and blowing up. If ANYone has any idea where this might be, please advise! P.S. I am not saying that this IS the reason, but it is a far more likely candidate than the fuel rail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMredline
How do you plan on in stalling the ZZP BRFPS system? Option 1 or option 2?
I ordered the evap line fittings when I placed the order, but in truth, I have no idea yet. I am gonna need some help if I end up going the Option 2 route as it involves a change in the injector settings (I think), and I don't know what I need to change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMredline
The only feedback I could give you on your build is the possibility of running a ported IM. I know the idea has been around for a few years and I dyno tested a ported IM with an M62 with basically no results. But with the amount of air that TVS is pushing it might be something to consider.
There is also the possibility of running an LS4 TB with a 3.5" CAI but between me and phil we should have that covered.
To be honest with you, your test of a ported IM was the reason I never considered this route. It would be interesting to see if it DOES have any effect with a larger blower, but my feeling is against it. If I were going to take the IM off to do anything with it, I would consider this, and a single pass. I already have a dual-pass, so it would be something to compare the differences in these also.
I already have the LS4, and I really want Watt's intake, but I need to make sure I can sell the one I have first.
Update on the HID's, I do have them working the way they are supposed to. I found that the part that plugs into the original light harness was wired wrong, and it was a simple fix, just reversing the prongs. Now I have normal working headlights AND foglights AND brights. I will take pics when I can...
I remember a company a long time ago stating that a test of the intake manifold showed inconsistencies in the airflow, favoring #4 with more air than the other 3 cylinders, but I have searched and searched for the thread and cannot find it. That would explain why #4 was going lean, and blowing up. If ANYone has any idea where this might be, please advise! P.S. I am not saying that this IS the reason, but it is a far more likely candidate than the fuel rail.
Hahn used to claim that as being one of the reason they ditched their original Twin Charge kit. I always thought it was a way of selling their $800 Turbo Intake manifold!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennpenn83
I ordered the evap line fittings when I placed the order, but in truth, I have no idea yet. I am gonna need some help if I end up going the Option 2 route as it involves a change in the injector settings (I think), and I don't know what I need to change.
I don't know the exact changes that need to be done either but I know people who have done it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennpenn83
To be honest with you, your test of a ported IM was the reason I never considered this route. It would be interesting to see if it DOES have any effect with a larger blower, but my feeling is against it. If I were going to take the IM off to do anything with it, I would consider this, and a single pass. I already have a dual-pass, so it would be something to compare the differences in these also.
Yeah and I have not seen anything concrete that proves that it does work for big blowers. I was just throwing it out there.
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