Lets try this again...Rebuild #3 :( - Saturn ION RedLine Forums
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs down Lets try this again...Rebuild #3 :(

Oooook...this car.....wow...anyway...:ba ngin:

took it to dynolab in marietta/atl last friday. Guy named Jeff came down from Engineered Performance outta Woodstock to tune it with HPT.

got it on dyno....was running rich at 13++AFR.....scaled the 80s all the way out. adjusted MAF/GPM. Timed it out to 21 deg. Something was pulling timing so he kept adding timing on the big table till it got to 21. between the big table and the intake temp and coolant temp tables something was pulling the timing by 2 deg. 80s only going to 30%DC at 7k. AFR was flat all the way to 7k at 11.7.

Only put down 242HP and 225FTlbs. Paid him $500, discussed what could be the problem, injectors, pulley creating too much heat, etc....and rolled out.

Car ran GREAT! Smooooth, plenty of power....

Went to Harbor freight in Kennesaw, spend $160 and headed back home to Columbus. about 50 miles outside Atl getting on I-185 I did the first full throttle 4th gear run....hit 6k and started losing power like my foot was off the pedal. WTF!?!

Pulled off and sounded like a subaru....shit.....AAA towed it back home. I called the tuning guy and he said I may have burned a Plug.

Got it home and pulled the plug. soaked in oil and the plug was dripping w/ oil.

shit...again....toasted...got the head off and knew I had to drop the motor again.....

anyway...this is what I have.....

2nd set of toasted Diamond Pistons
1, maybe 2 toasted bates Sleeves

Sleeves - $112/pc
Machine work - $?
Rebuild parts - $350-$400
Pistons - $500


Thoughts?
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My ION for sale $10,500

6.0L LS2 400HP Trailblazer SS Here I come!!!!
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 07:04 PM
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Holy crap did you melt that piston...

Driving a 2006 Chile Pepper Red Redline with Comp Package and Stage 2, 110K miles.

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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah dude...thats how it came outta the block!

My ION for sale $10,500

6.0L LS2 400HP Trailblazer SS Here I come!!!!
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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 05:21 AM
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and how did this happen? was it the tune or something else?
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 06:11 AM
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HUH? The tune.
I quote"Timed it out to 21 deg. Something was pulling timing " ORLY?"so he kept adding timing on the big table till it got to 21. between the big table and the intake temp and coolant temp tables something was pulling the timing by 2 deg. 80s only going to 30%DC at 7k. AFR was flat all the way to 7k at 11.7.

Only put down 242HP and 225FTlbs. Paid him $500, discussed what could be the problem, injectors, pulley creating too much heat, etc....
"

I would have strong words with the tuner and get $500 refunded. What a freaking disaster.

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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 07:56 AM
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Ouch.

I have not seen pistons melted that bad before...

Here is his previous thread for those who are interested.

Looks like me and the ION are gonna be spending more quality time together....

Even though the sleeves are scored you should be able to have them re honed and overbored. There is plenty of material there.

So this is a ecotec block you bought from bates? Or did you send your LSJ block to bates to get resleved?

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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikredline11 View Post
HUH? The tune.
I quote"Timed it out to 21 deg. Something was pulling timing " ORLY?"so he kept adding timing on the big table till it got to 21. between the big table and the intake temp and coolant temp tables something was pulling the timing by 2 deg. 80s only going to 30%DC at 7k. AFR was flat all the way to 7k at 11.7.

Only put down 242HP and 225FTlbs. Paid him $500, discussed what could be the problem, injectors, pulley creating too much heat, etc....
"

I would have strong words with the tuner and get $500 refunded. What a freaking disaster.
Yeah the tune/ecm...somthing....the tables didnt add up right. So he kept adding timing to the main table till it hit 21.

This is wat he said after i emailed him pics.
" The a/f ratio was 11.5-11.7,def not too lean. High inlet air temps, bad spark plugs,fuel puddling,all can cause detonation or pre-ignition and result in a broken piston/ringland. There is something else going on w that combo if this keeps happening. You need to check
everything. Send me the header and ill put EGT bungs in it so we can see wth is
going on next time we tune it.



So...i dunno....part of that 500rubber was dyno use fee

My ION for sale $10,500

6.0L LS2 400HP Trailblazer SS Here I come!!!!
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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I sent my block to bates. That chuck of sleeve thats missinis def over? .040....i called bates and he said that .040 is all hed recomend going. So its gonna be atleast one sleeve and the number one sleeve is scored or has piston material on it. Number 3has a pretty good score on it as well. May of happened on install buut the top oil ring was bent over the side of the of the ringland and riding the cyl wall.

My ION for sale $10,500

6.0L LS2 400HP Trailblazer SS Here I come!!!!
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 09:29 AM
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I am by no means an expert...just sharing observations. When a piston/cylinder wall look like someone was in there with a plasma cutter, cylinder temps were out of control. While a lean condition can contribute to this, my take is that timing controls cylinder temps to a greater degree. The more ignition lead you have, the more heat stays in the cylinder and less of it ends up burning in the exhaust port/manifold. My mindset is always to start with lame timing and creep up on it and don't have a set timing you are after. If you add timing and reach a point where the gains are negligible or flat...there's a reason. If the IAT table was pulling timing....maybe that was a warning? Were you allowed to see any logs....to see KR and IATs? Not trying to state the obvious...
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 09:43 AM
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Is this running on gasoline? Just my .02 but my logs show a stock car delivering about 21-23 degrees timing at the top of a WOT run. If the static compression is HIGHER and you are presumably pullied for more boost, but running similar fuel (91-93 octane?) then it would tolerate LESS spark timing. Just a thought.

Last edited by Papa C 2000; 11-17-2012 at 09:44 AM. Reason: typo
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