98 Gtp

[Sp00ner]

So with a 6.3 0-60 (which is slower than an Ion, at best the same), and a 14.7 1/4 mile, which again, is slower, at best the same. You're making a great case for why a Redline could absolutely beat a GP. A 98 is what? 240 hp? The Ion is underrated at 205, which we all know is closer to 210 at the wheels, so 30hp vs. 800 lbs. Hmmmm... dosen't take a genius to figure this one out. What's the gearing in your 'family sedan'? I've driven several GranPrix's in my day, and it sure don't seem like it has a 4.05 gearing, and can smoke the tires all the way through 2nd gear. I'm not sure what you were trying to say, but you've offerend '0' evidence for any case other than why a Redline could beat a GP. Now if you're talking about a new 270hp one, things could be different.

[Sp00ner]

Originally Posted by Jerryh

GTPs have a touch more torque (240 ft/lbs and up depending on the year)than you do and as you say, automatic. Spin is a major concern for us with the traction control disabled... more so than for you, I'd wager. .



As far as you spanking a GTP, there are only 3 ways that would ever happen:

1- The GP driver sucked so bad it was sad.
2- The GP was in need of some serious maintenance.
3- The GP driver wasn't racing but you thought he was.

My 4-door family sedan ran 14.7 hot off the street and 14.3's stock all day at the track after a 45 min cooldown (granted it was a cool day). 0-60mph times were publically stated as being 6.6 but in reality were closer to 6.3. 2-door GPs (lighter and quicker than the sedans) could be made to break deep into the 13's with as little as 3 mods... a catback, cold air intake and a smaller S/C pulley. Total cost: under $500.

Thats all with a car that weighs a good 800+ pounds more than the Ion.

Ions are a nice car, something I would buy a teenage son or daughter. The word performance and Saturn Ion don't belong in the same phrase. Granted most people think the same for the GP. I enjoy changing their minds.

JPK, where in Texas are you? I'm from Montreal Qc, but am going to Texas in a few weeks. I'd love to arrange a meet between a few of the slower local GPs there and your Ion. I'll bring the video cam.

Oh, and I'm sure you're not trying to win any friends, but this is one of the most condescending messages I've heard in a long time. Get some of the slower GP's together, that's a great one. I also like the one about performance and Ion not going together, that's great too. So I have no bad feelings about telling you to cram your message, and your GP, right up your ass.

[EddieB]

Originally Posted by Sp00ner

So with a 6.3 0-60 (which is slower than an Ion, at best the same), and a 14.7 1/4 mile, which again, is slower, at best the same. You're making a great case for why a Redline could absolutely beat a GP. A 98 is what? 240 hp? The Ion is underrated at 205, which we all know is closer to 210 at the wheels, so 30hp vs. 800 lbs. Hmmmm... dosen't take a genius to figure this one out. What's the gearing in your 'family sedan'? I've driven several GranPrix's in my day, and it sure don't seem like it has a 4.05 gearing, and can smoke the tires all the way through 2nd gear. I'm not sure what you were trying to say, but you've offerend '0' evidence for any case other than why a Redline could beat a GP. Now if you're talking about a new 270hp one, things could be different.

I took a GTP this morning and at the same time I killed a GTI that was trying to keep up.

[JPK]

Originally Posted by Jerryh

JPK, where in Texas are you? I'm from Montreal Qc, but am going to Texas in a few weeks. I'd love to arrange a meet between a few of the slower local GPs there and your Ion. I'll bring the video cam.

I'm in Fort Worth. I'd be happy to oblige.

I know that there are GTP's out there that could beat me but I also know that I did beat two of them. I like to race regardless.

[Sp00ner]

That guy was just an ass monkey that was upset that his 'family-sedan' is in the performance category of a Saturn. Jackass. He makes no mention of handling, which is pathetic in all but the new CompG packages, without aftermarket work. How about racing a bunch of stock GP's, his statemnt says that his car is stock, his sig says otherwise. If you wanted a race car, buy one, if you want a family-car that is fast buy a GranPrix. I love 'em, really I do, but that was just an arrogant statement, by someone who has more than likely, never even seen an Ion Redline, much less raced one. I still haven't seen another one in a city/suburbs of 6+ million people. IF he had, he'd know a little more about our wheel spin issues... jackass...

[myredline]

I like GTP's, hell I used to own one but to say we can't beat them is just BS. Yes with some mods you can get into the 13's but stock I don't think so. 97-2003 GTP were 240hp / 280ft / 3559lbs and 0 to 60 in 6.8sec.

Now our cars are said to be 205hp. But as we all know most are dynoed at 205+ to the wheels. Our cars weigh in @ 2960 and 0 to 60 in 6.3sec. Which was giving by the same morons who couldn't get this car faster then 15.3 in the quarter. Which once again we all know that to be bull. The redline will run constent 14.5's all day. Oh and here is a dyno slip of a 02 GTP and it only put 200 to the wheels. SO we are making more power with a lighter car. YOU DO THE MATH.

2002 pontiac grand prix gtp
Engine Specs: 3.8Liter pushrod (6Cyl)
Mileage: 1500 miles
Aspiration: super-charged[7 psi]
Transmission: 4A
Max (RW/FW)HP: 199.9 @ 5253 rpms
Max (RW/FW)TQ: 233.0 @ 3974 rpms
Estimated Fly Wheel Horsepower: 256 @ 5253 rpms [assuming 22 % drivetrain loss]
Estimated Fly Wheel Torque: 299 @ 3974 rpms [assuming 22 % drivetrain loss]
Room temp / Inlet Temp (F): 68.0 / 57.0
Pressure (kPa): 101.3
Humidity (%): 60.0
Condition Details: ATC Corr = +0.990 Atmos. Corr = +1.000 K factor = +0.990 User/Dyno Inertia: 1.000 5.841 A Gear Ratio = 2.749 Vacuum Ref =+100.80 TachoSelect = 3 Ramp Up = 10 Ramp Down = 0 Ramp Command = 10
Fan:
Date and Time: 2003-02-08 - 00:00:00
Dyno Correction Factor No Correction

This vehicle is stock

[Jerryh]

Originally Posted by Sp00ner

Oh, and I'm sure you're not trying to win any friends, but this is one of the most condescending messages I've heard in a long time. Get some of the slower GP's together, that's a great one.

Okay, I'll ask that the GPs that can do 12 seconds or less in the 1/4 mile to come and I'll tape THOSE results, yes that would be REAL fair to you. BTW, in either case, the results will still be the same, just farther apart. Not very fair, but hey... thats the way YOU want to take it, if thats comfortable for you.

Originally Posted by Sp00ner

I also like the one about performance and Ion not going together, that's great too.

I said the SAME thing about GPs... damn you must have the worst case of selective reading I have ever seen on the net.

Originally Posted by Sp00ner

So I have no bad feelings about telling you to cram your message, and your GP, right up your ass.

Oh well... sucks to be you, cause the truth really must have hurt to set you off and display your IQ level equivalent to the number of charaters in your profanities... lol.

Enjoy your Ion. I'm enjoying my GP.

[BOOSTED]

You need to watch out for them 4-doors, i've ran against a sc'd regal in the eight that knocked off consistent 9.0's with minimal mods. All with two car seats in the back. I was running 8.7's that night and people were joking that a buick was keeping up with a lightning.

[BOOSTED]

Originally Posted by myredline

I like GTP's, hell I used to own one but to say we can't beat them is just BS. Yes with some mods you can get into the 13's but stock I don't think so. 97-2003 GTP were 240hp / 280ft / 3559lbs and 0 to 60 in 6.8sec.

Now our cars are said to be 205hp. But as we all know most are dynoed at 205+ to the wheels. Our cars weigh in @ 2960 and 0 to 60 in 6.3sec. Which was giving by the same morons who couldn't get this car faster then 15.3 in the quarter. Which once again we all know that to be bull. The redline will run constent 14.5's all day. Oh and here is a dyno slip of a 02 GTP and it only put 200 to the wheels. SO we are making more power with a lighter car. YOU DO THE MATH.

2002 pontiac grand prix gtp
Engine Specs: 3.8Liter pushrod (6Cyl)
Mileage: 1500 miles
Aspiration: super-charged[7 psi]
Transmission: 4A
Max (RW/FW)HP: 199.9 @ 5253 rpms
Max (RW/FW)TQ: 233.0 @ 3974 rpms
Estimated Fly Wheel Horsepower: 256 @ 5253 rpms [assuming 22 % drivetrain loss]
Estimated Fly Wheel Torque: 299 @ 3974 rpms [assuming 22 % drivetrain loss]
Room temp / Inlet Temp (F): 68.0 / 57.0
Pressure (kPa): 101.3
Humidity (%): 60.0
Condition Details: ATC Corr = +0.990 Atmos. Corr = +1.000 K factor = +0.990 User/Dyno Inertia: 1.000 5.841 A Gear Ratio = 2.749 Vacuum Ref =+100.80 TachoSelect = 3 Ramp Up = 10 Ramp Down = 0 Ramp Command = 10
Fan:
Date and Time: 2003-02-08 - 00:00:00
Dyno Correction Factor No Correction

This vehicle is stock

I think a lot of what a car is capable is determined by the driver. To judge a car based on stats alone is wrong. My old 97gt convertable only put down 201rwhp/279tq and ran 9.2's@79mph with 2.1 60's all on run down H rated street tires. This was with 3.73 gears,catback,cold air, short shifter and a tune. I know my car had to be a least 3559 lbs. Running that low of power was one of the main reasons why i traded up to my truck. I have yet to see a ion run a 9.2's in the eight. Im not partial to the gp but how hard is it to
drive an auto.

[JPK]

I'll let you guys know what I run in the eighth. Weather permitting, I'll be going to the track next Friday.