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Old 11-07-2012, 09:45 AM   #541 (permalink)
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Let's go out on a limb, and just assume that everyone that is in the entitlement crowd did vote for Obama. That still means a large portion of people voted for him that are not in that crowd. I have no idea how Romney came up with his 47% numbers, as they seem like the biggest lie of the election. The poverty rate is and has been in the 10-15% range for decades. The mean and average American is in the middle class AND paying their own way. So long as the average is better to do than the mean, the upper class will continue to try and erode the middle class away.

I completely understand people in the Upper Class voting for Romney. Why would they vote for anyone else? But people in the middle class have been directly affected by far right politics in the last twelve years more so than anyone else, and should know better.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:46 AM   #542 (permalink)
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What!?? Wallstreet (run by a bunch of rich white guys) is upset that their rich white guy didn't get elected? What a surprise! Maybe if they could have found a rich white guy that didn't alienate pretty much everyone who isn't at least a white guy,
Having and caring about a 401k might be a laughing matter for most liberals and people who do not understand the value of saving money but it is important to me.

I don't think the color of a person skin is as important as their believes and policies. The response we are seeing in the market has more to do the effect Obama's policies will have on the growth of the economy. There are already reports of businesses of all sizes "hunkering down" to try to figure out how to survive over the next 4 years.

I detailed it all out in my earlier post. I wrote that article with the intentions of enlightening uneducated voters on the direct impact of a vote for Obama vs a vote for Romney. Unfortunately, it is going to turn into a "I told you so" reference as this country continues the crumble...

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they could have got the job done (cough, cough Gary Johnson...).
You and I agree on the importance of having a strong 3rd party or getting rid of party alliances all together. But since you're acting like a liberal in your responses I have to share something with you that I heard from one of the liberal media outlets. They contribute the growth and popularity of the Tea/Libertarian/Green party to Obama's victory. They say the Republicans are unorganized and unable to deal with the rise of the this 3rd party. The Tea/Libertarian/Green is grabbing a lot of independent voters but it is taking more republicans then democrats. There are many people who believe that Ron Paul's involvement in the 2008 election also helped Obama win.

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Let's go out on a limb, and just assume that everyone that is in the entitlement crowd did vote for Obama. That still means a large portion of people voted for him that are not in that crowd. I have no idea how Romney came up with his 47% numbers, as they seem like the biggest lie of the election. The poverty rate is and has been in the 10-15% range for decades. The mean and average American is in the middle class AND paying their own way. So long as the average is better to do than the mean, the upper class will continue to try and erode the middle class away.
This is from 2008. I am sure the numbers for 2012 are higher.

Where Do the 47 Percent Live? | The American Conservative



And those numbers only include those who filed taxes with no taxable income liability. It does not include people who are eligible to work but did not pay taxes.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:27 PM   #543 (permalink)
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The map, and the article you show, both point out a black and white fact, the vast majority of "free-loaders" live in states that traditionally, and yesterday, voted Republican.

I don't feel that I'm "acting like a liberal" at all, I feel like I'm calling you all out on your points against Obama, to try and find OTHER solutions to our problems above and beyond what Obama or Romney have proposed, because I feel like both ends are so far from the middle that they never intend to actually accomplish anything.

Furthermore, my direct experience with "entitlement" is that people without money and people with plenty to spare BOTH have ridiculous senses of entitlement and seem to think that I, and every other middle-class American should be taking care of them. I'm sick and tired of hearing about someone staying and home and collecting unemployment, while and we carry them, and I'm sick and tired of someone staying at home doing nothing collecting a paycheck from their investments, from capital they inherited, from their grandfather's grandfather. Seems to me, both cases are not actually contributing. I don't think sitting in and office and arguing about nothing constitutes a job or career, either, and our forefathers NEVER intended for political positions to be full-time in the first place.

So, In summary, If neither red, nor blue, can see that they are BOTH WRONG, I don't see any room for progress to be made.

(and progress and congress are opposites, after all...)
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:35 PM   #544 (permalink)
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(and progress and congress are opposites, after all...)
Stolen...to FB we go!!!
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:41 AM   #545 (permalink)
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The map, and the article you show, both point out a black and white fact, the vast majority of "free-loaders" live in states that traditionally, and yesterday, voted Republican.
I noticed that too. You asked where the 47% came from and that was all I could find.

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I don't feel that I'm "acting like a liberal" at all, I feel like I'm calling you all out on your points against Obama, to try and find OTHER solutions to our problems above and beyond what Obama or Romney have proposed, because I feel like both ends are so far from the middle that they never intend to actually accomplish anything.
I agree but I still felt that Romney was a little better. The system sucks but we have to do our best with what we have. The lesser of two evils is still the lesser of two evils.

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Furthermore, my direct experience with "entitlement" is that people without money and people with plenty to spare BOTH have ridiculous senses of entitlement and seem to think that I, and every other middle-class American should be taking care of them. I'm sick and tired of hearing about someone staying and home and collecting unemployment, while and we carry them, and I'm sick and tired of someone staying at home doing nothing collecting a paycheck from their investments, from capital they inherited, from their grandfather's grandfather. Seems to me, both cases are not actually contributing. I don't think sitting in and office and arguing about nothing constitutes a job or career, either, and our forefathers NEVER intended for political positions to be full-time in the first place.

So, In summary, If neither red, nor blue, can see that they are BOTH WRONG, I don't see any room for progress to be made.
I agree. But this really comes down to perspective.

When I was young, my family did not have a lot of money. We lived in tiny apartments and subsidized tribal housing. My dad drove for a courier service and my mom stayed home to take care of me and my younger brother. We were low income. When my brother was old enough to go to school my mom got a full time job and my dad got a new job at a local packaging plant. We still did not have a lot of money but we made due. We no longer qualified any sort of financial assistance. I graduated college and found a good paying job.

During that transition from very low income to middle class I went through a lot of different emotions. I understood the importance of the assistance we received as a young family. I understood the challenges of finishing college and finding a job. I now understand the hard work that goes into building a solid foundation for myself and my child. And like everyone on this plant, I hope to one day be considered financially wealthy.

So I don't have a problem with no to low income receiving benefits to help build them up and get them back on their feet. And I have no problem with Rich people trying to stay rich. Don't we all want to be rich? My problem is with the abuse that goes along with each class. How do we fix that? Who knows...

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Stolen...to FB we go!!!
It does explain a lot...
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:40 PM   #546 (permalink)
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So the Browns are clearly still lingering around the mediocre category.... at least we are not the Jaguars.....

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Old 11-09-2012, 07:50 AM   #547 (permalink)
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F the state of Ohio...
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:56 AM   #548 (permalink)
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yeah, ohio is on my shit list right now... but i'll still love the browns and indians no matter what


as far as obama's next term, we are so royally fucked. the handouts will increase, debt will reach 22t, and the economy is going to tank harder... look at all the large companies (factory and not) that are laying off employees. my advise to everyone; buy a reliable pistol, rifle, and shotgun, then load up on a shit ton of ammo. there will be civil war again... I for one am disgusted in the fact that the majority of americans would rather take a handout than work to provide for themselves and family...
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:29 AM   #549 (permalink)
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Have you guys heard that 45 companies have announced Job Layoffs in the past 48 hours?

Layoff bomb detonates; Large corporations join small businesses in announcing mass cuts | Twitchy

I am just mad at Ohio because they went Dem as an important swing state. I will probably get over it if the country can survive till 2016.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:57 AM   #550 (permalink)
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