All this talk of ice boxes.. Here is mine

[Ahriman]

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

well, i plan on going to a 2.5" and some #60 injectors in the next 2 months. Although i wouldnt really concider that 'heavily' modded, a 2.5 is going to generate more intake heat than any other mod I can think of. Also, with much lower intake temps, i think you might be able to get away running a little bit leaner safer

werd. i just dont think an ice box is practicle for sombody like me in the dirty dirty, with 102 degree days on the way... and im way to lazy to fuck with liquid n2 or anything else. but i am interested to see where you end up with this thing.

[mgm1979]

[quote=Ahriman]werd. i just dont think an ice box is practicle for sombody like me in the dirty dirty, with 102 degree days on the way...QUOTE]

Isn't that the REASON for an ice box? With those temps, heat soak will happen as soon as you turn your key, just about...an ice box at the track, ideally, will allow you to get a decent run in (prob not mid-day) vs WITHOUT the box...for $100, if your hitting up the track, why not?

[NoRemorse]

[quote=mgm1979]

Originally Posted by Ahriman

werd. i just dont think an ice box is practicle for sombody like me in the dirty dirty, with 102 degree days on the way...QUOTE]

Isn't that the REASON for an ice box? With those temps, heat soak will happen as soon as you turn your key, just about...an ice box at the track, ideally, will allow you to get a decent run in (prob not mid-day) vs WITHOUT the box...for $100, if your hitting up the track, why not?

Hell, I plan on spending only $50 and about 2$ for ln2 for a day at the track. on other days ice will do just fine thank you!

[davytudope]

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

does anyone know the flow of our IC pump, in gpm?

"pump capable of a 26 liters (7 gallons) per minute flow rate"
according to alldata.com

[NoRemorse]

Originally Posted by davytudope

"pump capable of a 26 liters (7 gallons) per minute flow rate"
according to alldata.com

Nice, now I'll see if I can see if there is enough flow to keep the fluid from freezing!

[djt81185]

in order to avoid all this hassle...im going to water injection.

Dan

[FastJ]

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

-318 degrees of sweetness.... I'm really have a hard time seeing why not. As long as the pump keeps the water from becoming stagnent, and there is antifreeze in it, it shoudn't freeze up, just get COLD AS HELL! either way, the box would work for anything, but im sure as hell gonna try ln2

Ummmmmm... wow.

LN2 will instantly freeze the surface of anything it touches... particularly the hoses you appear to have running through your box. If you actually plan on immersing stuff in LN2 for any length of time, you will end up with serious problems. For instance... anything rubber or plastic or water-based, kiss them goodbye. They will shatter while frozen or in the case of the rubber become so brittle due to a chemical change in the polymer induced by the extreme cold as to become useless.

Any water which freezes will increase in volume (this is why you can't leave water-based liquids in the freezer... they go boom eventually) and this too would probably ruin your setup. This is why you can't leave your hand in a tank of LN2: the water in your cells (we're ~70% water) will freeze, expand, and explode the cells from the inside-out.

If you manage to get this far w/o hurting yourself or destroying your engine, what happens if you have ice crystals running through your cooling system? (I don't know... but I imagine the Dexcool takes over and tries to keep things from freezing... and as Spooner pointed out, the antifreeze is only rated to a certain temp after which you'll run into problems once again...)

Think it through thoroughly before you just pour LN2 into a box and expect magical things to happen.

[Cruwl]

I have to comment on one thing tho, water when frozen with LN does not expand as much as you think.
The water is basicly flash frozer, it doesnt have the time to expand as much as if it was frozen at 32 or 31 %.

[FastJ]

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

damn it, i meant to make a vent in the lid, back to the model! But you don't want too loose of a vent, because the more pressure you can keep on it, the colder it will stay. A srping loaded safty check valve is in order!

Yes and no. LN2 when evaporating will expand by approximately 682x. If you build a 3 L box and fill it with LN2, the nitrogen will soon want to occupy over 2,000 L. You NEED a vent.

But obviously you've never really worked with LN2. Go take a look at an actual LN2 tank or dewar for God's sake. You could fill a styrofoam coffee cup (use a second one so you don't freeze your hand) with LN2 and leave it uncovered and it would take in the ballpark of ten minutes for it all to boil away. A small (say dime-sized) passive vent on most dewars is adequate.

Any and all liability is yours, btw. This is pretty funny but gives an idea of what can happen if you don't know what you're doing or take safety precautions with cryogenics.

[NoRemorse]

Originally Posted by FastJ

Ummmmmm... wow.

LN2 will instantly freeze the surface of anything it touches... particularly the hoses you appear to have running through your box. If you actually plan on immersing stuff in LN2 for any length of time, you will end up with serious problems. For instance... anything rubber or plastic or water-based, kiss them goodbye. They will shatter while frozen or in the case of the rubber become so brittle due to a chemical change in the polymer induced by the extreme cold as to become useless.

Any water which freezes will increase in volume (this is why you can't leave water-based liquids in the freezer... they go boom eventually) and this too would probably ruin your setup. This is why you can't leave your hand in a tank of LN2: the water in your cells (we're ~70% water) will freeze, expand, and explode the cells from the inside-out.

If you manage to get this far w/o hurting yourself or destroying your engine, what happens if you have ice crystals running through your cooling system? (I don't know... but I imagine the Dexcool takes over and tries to keep things from freezing... and as Spooner pointed out, the antifreeze is only rated to a certain temp after which you'll run into problems once again...)

Think it through thoroughly before you just pour LN2 into a box and expect magical things to happen.

Heat exchanges are made of copper and lead usually (the copper is dipped in lead to seal the fins to the core) and evaperating ln2 keeps the a small buffer between the liquid and the excganges. This is called the leidenfrost effect

as far as cells, it is called lysing. You can put your hand in ln2, as well as put it in your mouth. If your afraid to, try this. Put a drop of water on a hot frying pan, it floats around because the bottom of it rides on a thin layer of steam, same idea. Same thing with ln2, it flash evaporates in small quantities, leaving a gas barrier. (JUST DONT SWALLOW!! it expands!!!)

Ice crystals, even if they were to form (they form at about -40c in antifreeze solutions) they would easily melt in the lamnova cores as they are heated WAY up. As long as it keeps flowing, there should be no chance of freezing the water. (by the way water expansion happens before freezing by about 5 degrees c) The water will boil off all the ln2 way before the water starts freezing. The water has to drop probably over 150degrees to start freezing, while the ln2 is currently boiling off at no change!

And as for polymers with chemical changes. It just dosn't happen. Even with a thermosel plymer, where heat has an affect on redgitity, the cold will make them sligthly more brittle. Further more, the silicone hoses are thermosets, and do not change nearly as much in tempeture. Niether exhibits ANY chemical changes in the presence of temperatures (unless they burn).

I have done my reasearch and thought about it. I don't see why it woudn't work as well, if not better than ice or even dry ice. Ln2 is not half as dangerous as you are making it out to be. We run gasolene vehichles, now THAT is dangerous!

And you don't even need a dewar!!! Just a good vaccuum flask, like a thermos!

and 'expecting magic'. People spray co2 on intercoolers and see large gains. I'm pretty sure this could see gains as well. Some relitly cheap ones too. It's not like i was thinking,'that would be cool'. I honestly believe if done right, this would be very useful to me.