All this talk of ice boxes.. Here is mine

[FastJ]

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

Heat exchanges are made of copper and lead usually (the copper is dipped in lead to seal the fins to the core) and evaperating ln2 keeps the a small buffer between the liquid and the excganges. This is called the leidenfrost effect

> snip <

And as for polymers with chemical changes. It just dosn't happen. Even with a thermosel plymer, where heat has an affect on redgitity, the cold will make them sligthly more brittle. Further more, the silicone hoses are thermosets, and do not change nearly as much in tempeture. Niether exhibits ANY chemical changes in the presence of temperatures (unless they burn).

Yeah, that's why I mentioned plastics and rubber and not metals and mentioned surface freezing only unless immersed. Rubber, esp. non-synthetic, will change its properties after immersion in LN2, AFAIR some of this is due to an actual change in the hydrogen bonding between chains or sheets. You're right tho... silicone-based would be fairly robust.

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

as far as cells, it is called lysing. You can put your hand in ln2, as well as put it in your mouth. If your afraid to, try this. Put a drop of water on a hot frying pan, it floats around because the bottom of it rides on a thin layer of steam, same idea. Same thing with ln2, it flash evaporates in small quantities, leaving a gas barrier. (JUST DONT SWALLOW!! it expands!!!)

I've done the dipping the hand trick before but not the blowing smoke rings bit. See link in other post to Nitro-Mike story..... which maybe you've already heard...

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

Ice crystals, even if they were to form (they form at about -40c in antifreeze solutions) they would easily melt in the lamnova cores as they are heated WAY up. As long as it keeps flowing, there should be no chance of freezing the water. (by the way water expansion happens before freezing by about 5 degrees c) The water will boil off all the ln2 way before the water starts freezing. The water has to drop probably over 150degrees to start freezing, while the ln2 is currently boiling off at no change!

I have done my reasearch and thought about it. I don't see why it woudn't work as well, if not better than ice or even dry ice. Ln2 is not half as dangerous as you are making it out to be. We run gasolene vehichles, now THAT is dangerous!

And you don't even need a dewar!!! Just a good vaccuum flask, like a thermos!

and 'expecting magic'. People spray co2 on intercoolers and see large gains. I'm pretty sure this could see gains as well. Some relitly cheap ones too. It's not like i was thinking,'that would be cool'. I honestly believe if done right, this would be very useful to me.

Sorry... lately I've just been working with too many people who expect magic solutions to solve all problems for all mankind and for free... some of your first posts had that feel. Never meant to make LN2 out to be dangerous... LN2, sharp pointy objects, etc. are all perfectly safe if you know what's going on. But even the oceans (near the poles...), Lake Superior, etc. can freeze over. Flow will only get you so far, but temperature always wins.

I'd love to hear how successful this is and if it's any better than dry ice.

[NoRemorse]

Originally Posted by FastJ

Sorry... lately I've just been working with too many people who expect magic solutions to solve all problems for all mankind and for free... some of your first posts had that feel. Never meant to make LN2 out to be dangerous... LN2, sharp pointy objects, etc. are all perfectly safe if you know what's going on. But even the oceans (near the poles...), Lake Superior, etc. can freeze over. Flow will only get you so far, but temperature always wins.

I'd love to hear how successful this is and if it's any better than dry ice.

Ok, i will admit my 1st posts were a little far fetched sounding, but that's because I actually had the time to try to source heat exchangers and was just kind of typing random thoughts. But.... lake superior dosn't freez!! it's too deep! As water cools, it's at it's densest at around 4sh degrees, so the entire like make become 4 degrees before the top can freeze. Any froan lake is 4 degrees at the bottom, but if it is too deep, it will not freeze!

[NoRemorse]

Let's say the coolant goes in at 150sh degrees, and spends 7 seconds tops in the exchanges. I don't think there is any way that it is going to drop almost 200 degrees in 7 seconds. My guess... it will drop 40. THen heat right back up once it enters the lamnova cores.

[mgm1979]

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

Let's say the coolant goes in at 150sh degrees, and spends 7 seconds tops in the exchanges. I don't think there is any way that it is going to drop almost 200 degrees in 7 seconds. My guess... it will drop 40. THen heat right back up once it enters the lamnova cores.

I think there's two things at work here...1) Cooling the coolant down 2) keeping the coolant cool.
As far as I'm concerned, my hopes are that the coolant will never really reach some of the crazy temps I've seen after track runs, BECAUSE of the cooling assitance I've provided through the likes of some sort of ice box. If I can keep my coolant temps to about 175-180 AS I'm staging, then I'm happy and mission accomplished. As of now, the only way I can get that to happen is to let the car sit for about 35-min, between runs, and only start the car to move forward in the staging lanes (10 ft at a time).
If I can cut down the time between runs to about 15 min, then I'm already ahead in that I can make more runs each night!

[NoRemorse]

Originally Posted by mgm1979

I think there's two things at work here...1) Cooling the coolant down 2) keeping the coolant cool.
As far as I'm concerned, my hopes are that the coolant will never really reach some of the crazy temps I've seen after track runs, BECAUSE of the cooling assitance I've provided through the likes of some sort of ice box. If I can keep my coolant temps to about 175-180 AS I'm staging, then I'm happy and mission accomplished. As of now, the only way I can get that to happen is to let the car sit for about 35-min, between runs, and only start the car to move forward in the staging lanes (10 ft at a time).
If I can cut down the time between runs to about 15 min, then I'm already ahead in that I can make more runs each night!

And that's exactly why I think ln2 is the ticket. I don't think your going to get anything to cool the way it does, and with temps like 180, I don't think thier is much of a chance of freezing.

[Badanthony]

The shit's dangerous. You better know what you're fuk*** with. My suggestion is - Try something a little more SANE !!!

[NoRemorse]

Originally Posted by Badanthony

The shit's dangerous. You better know what you're fuk*** with. My suggestion is - Try something a little more SANE !!!

How is it dangerous? More dangerous than gasolene that when ignited expands WAY MORE than ln2? Burns are also WAY more dangerous than freezing. I see some of the stupidest people pump gas daily. I'll take my chances with the ln2.

They let kids play with it in Highschool, why does everyong think it's so dangerous? I;ve sued liquid helium, which is half of ln2 on the kelvin scale!!

[rice eater]

well I have seen very good results with dry ice. I hope to have a few ready here real soon.