hey all i just need to get the final info on this swap if im going to do it or not! the TVS m62 is cool and all but im not gonna wait till next fall to get it!
so in this thread i would like to get the charts for both the stock m62 and the procharger c1 and any guesses on how much boost i can push safely.
my soon to be mods:
vibrant header back 3" ( sponsored) needs installed
cometic head gasket w/ studs
1 or 2 step colder plugs
and 60 pound injectors.
these are all upgrades from what i have now but with the boost im hoping to push i need a free flowing car. now the C1 is capable of 24 psi and 80,000 rpms
how much is that compared to my 18psi on my m62 w/ 2.8 pulley?
eaton specs not sure if this is the GEN 5.
here is the info on the C1 i cant find any charts. (mabe i didnt look hard enough!)
the benefits i see from this is less heat even thoe i lose my instant power, i think i can still hit my 300-350 whp range so i can call it quits.
i will have it tuned professionally at tune time performance in nj (they have experience w/ LSJ/ecotecs.
i have hp tuners and a wideband also so that is all good. my questions are at what rpms do you thing this thing will start spooling and what psi do you think i should run! any other info is welcome
my other quesiton is if the m62 is only hitting 20,000 rpms vs the c1's 80,000 isnt that going to make more power?
i really want the C1 because its going to make the power levels i want easy I dont want to push the m62 to it limit w/ the 2.5 because my car will be heat soaked almost all the time in the summer
i thought that when you compare other factors it makes different hp
liek for example 10 psi makes more power on turbos than s/c's so whatever because it compresses it more... also the C1 is almost 100+ degrees cooler
You are right, 10 psi <> 10 psi.
The parasitic loss on the engine and the heat (aka efficiency) are major factors.
The eatons have a very high parasitic loss the faster you spin them. Over 40 hp in most of our cases (assuming you pullied it). I do not know the parasitic loss on the Prochargers, but I can't imagine it is even half of what the eaton is. Turbos, unless you put a too small one on there, also have very low parasitic loss.
The trade off is that neither a turbo nor a procharger will boost you to 12+ lbs as fast as your foot can hit the floor. Even the tiny turbo on an srt takes a moment to spool up. A procharger won't have to "spool up" per se, but it just doesn't flow the volume needed to create instant torque. There is a little lag. That being said, an eaton isn't going to net you 400+ hp.
I have driven a 640 hp procharged mustang, and it was one of the sickest cars I have ever been in, but it felt like a turbo, pulling a little down low and then pulling harder as you got the revs higher. I have also driven SRT, and they feel similar, they ease you into the power.
i thought that when you compare other factors it makes different hp
liek for example 10 psi makes more power on turbos than s/c's so whatever because it compresses it more... also the C1 is almost 100+ degrees cooler
Ummm... ehhhh.... ahhhhhhh.... no... not really... I know this is about to open a can of worms....
You really need the same 3 types of charts for the Procharger to really fairly compare here...
A blower uses power to make power, so no matter what you do, if everything is equal, the turbo will get more power to the ground because it doesn't use any. A turbo will also tend to discharge cooler. This is NOT always true. There are turbos out there with efficiency ratings in the low 60's... the M62 is in the mid 60's depending on where you force the boost to go. If you force it to make too much, the efficiency drops. The same is true of ANY compressor out there. A turbo will tend to make more torque low end, if it's a 'smaller' turbo, because it can reach max boost and stay there lower in the RPM range, which allows more time to fill the cyls and therefore makes more torque.
Now... a Procharger is VERY similar to the compressor side of a turbo, the only real difference is the manner in which the Procharger gets it power vs. the turbo. The Procharger uses a belt, which like the Eaton, is coupled to the driveline. If you look at the airflow of it though, you'll see that it's a BIG 'J' shape. It's 'flow' is realtive to the compressor's RPM in an exponential way vs. a liner way.
The cooler temps are good. No question there.
To me, it's cost vs. benefit. If you think that this is the only way to reach the power goal that you have, and that it's a cost effective way, then have at it. If you're only dragging and peak power is your goal, the Procharger will likely work well for you....
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'05 Stage 2 Redline -One of the few Red REDlines
The parasitic loss on the engine and the heat (aka efficiency) are major factors.
Sure, but BOOST is boost... of course as you've said, hot boost <> cold boost, and there's draw from the blowers. I would still say that boost is boost though... it's the shape of the 'boost curve' that's really making the differences, not the 'peak' boost.
and lets not forget cfm... I"ve seen and srt 4 stock turbo at 17 psi put down around 280 whp... than with a t3/t4 50 trim put down 360 at the same psi... its all in the flow
I wouldn't swap a positive displacement blower with a centrifugal no matter what it said on paper. Not to memntion, I've been reading the procharger website and I've never seen so many "misconceptions" about roots blowers.
well im not really interested in low end power anymore! lol im tired of clutch slips (at the track) and such plus wheel hop sometimes, i know ill probably still get it but less is always better.
* I dont want to do cams because there isnt a shop anywere in delaware and saturn would probably not be able to do it.
port and polish the blower nets little to no gains
* I may upgrade valves, springs, and retainers but thats about it.
* Water injection is dangerous in my driving style (probably forget to fill tank of fluid, run out... knock knock boom!)
* Spray isnt good for my drivig style either (ill try to push it any chance i get)
* Turbo would be fun to do but all the different size turbos and such confuse the hell out of me! i just want 300-350 whp and 250-300 tq dont and make power in the mid to hi range i dont want 300 hp at 2000 rpms i will blow my car up
thanks all for the help any more info would be great!
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Eaton M62 VS procharger c1 ?'s
i just want 300-350 whp and 250-300 tq dont and make power in the mid to hi range i dont want 300 hp at 2000 rpms i will blow my car up 
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