I didn't remember seeing an oil passage for the end where the cam is capped at the sensor. Thats the cap thats actually torqued much higher than the 89inch pounds the others are. If that one has a passage, I would think the CMP housing would fill with oil.
Hmmm...
So the 6th cam bearing to journal interface is metal to metal then?
Don't think so...
AFAIK it is exactly the same as the intake cam on the 2.2, which IS pressure fed, then there's a drainback port and passage through into the lifter valley on the P/S pump (CMP sensor) side of the journal with an additional seal isolating the accessory. In fact this was the seal that was originally replaced as part of one of the first LSJ campaigns on the Redline.
Ok just cancelled order with Bates, lol. He seemed very relectant to do so but he's a nice guy I just can't be taking my chances with my DD.
Consider it his fault for him not informing you of the additional modifications that had to be performed. Its money>customer service to a lot of businesses.
Hmmm...
So the 6th cam bearing to journal interface is metal to metal then?
Don't think so...
AFAIK it is exactly the same as the intake cam on the 2.2, which IS pressure fed, then there's a drainback passage into the lifter valley on the P/S pump (CMP sensor) side of the journal with an additional seal isolating the accessory. In fact this was the seal that was originally replaced as part of one of the first LSJ campaigns on the Redline.
Wop
You're probably right. I just didn't remember seeing an oil passage there, only on the caps that are tightened to 89in/lbs. There is a seal on the housing, but it houses just residue amounts of oil.
Consider it his fault for him not informing you of the additional modifications that had to be performed. Its money>customer service to a lot of businesses.
Yeah, thats what I figured. But I just called Ferrea and got my p/n's and my closest retailer is a shop that my buddy works at so hopefully I can swipe a deal on these
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It comes out to 1.35mm, but the 1.69 rocker ratio doesn't apply to the lifter end of the rocker. (fulcrum point is not in the middle). Its just slightly longer at 1.40mm. Wopontour informed me that the lifter has 2mm adjustment and is set at -1mm on stock cams. Delphi's website claims that each lifter has a minimum of 2.5mm of travel. Either way, its completely within the lifters specs.
Also, I'm confused on how you think valvetrain geometry is changed. The fulcrum point is still the same, as well as rocker ratio. The lifter is in an extended position which puts the rocker at a steeper angle but has no effect on lift assuming the lifter isn't collapsing.
The lifters are doing a great job of taking up the lash as I have no valvetrain noise as of now. Sinister is sending me some shims in case I have trouble in the future. The only thing that worries me about shims is the fact that I don't know how high the lifter can sit off its stock base before its starved of oil.
You are right the rocker ratio is higher at the lifter end. If the fulcrum was in the middle you would have a 2:1 ratio. As I don't have a rocker to measure I can only make assumptions on the dimensions.
As you said the rocker is at a different angle. The rocker tip travel is an arc the valve tip travels in a straight line wich is tangental to the rocker arc. Therefore the tip of the rocker has to scrub across the tip of the valve as it actuates it. The idea is to center the rocker arc with the valve stem travel.
Again I don't believe it's a problem with lower lifts and moderate base circle reduction.
Pierre
Since I did a poor job of explaining how to establish correct rocker geometry I'll include this link..Yes it's pusrods but the principle is the same.
Pierre, Yes I know the change is similar to a canti-lever (the best way I can think to describe it). But I checked these when we first started making these a long time ago (rice eaters head). We mocked everything up in the head and checked everything with dial indicator (I dont have the original measurements since this was a long time ago). And if WOP (as he also helped with some of the research, again almost two years ago) wants to chime in, we discussed and verified all of the concearns that you have mentioned.
BTW my 480whp, 495wtrq subie has small base circle ground cams. Seems to work good to.
Honestly I am so frustrated with trying to prove that it will be fine that please dont buy the cams OK .
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Last edited by Sinister redlines; 05-24-2007 at 07:27 PM.
I decided to do this about a month ago, just had to scramble funds together. Didn't wanna say anything was just gonna post a pic up of everything in my garage when I got it in lol. But now I'm getting nervous. Also, I'm getting my head ported around here. Unless FT can hook it up. Give him a call for me and ask him if you can.
Oh and Nitrous, I got it on lock for nitrous. Set up is gonna be siiiiiiiick. lol.
hows 1300 sound? that includes the springs and retainers, flow bench tested, valve job and resurfacing the head if needed. he can even upgrade to ferrea valves for extra money. hows 1mm oversize sound? i wish i would've did that.www.flowtechnicsonline.com Dave Endrigo. i believe the company is in the process of a name change. i think its going to become DC Innovations.
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2004 Saturn Ion REDLINE. BONE STOCK
Pierre, Yes I know the change is similar to a canti-lever (the best way I can think to describe it). But I checked these when we first started making these a long time ago (rice eaters head). We mocked everything up in the head and checked everything with dial indicator (I dont have the original measurements since this was a long time ago). And if WOP (as he also helped with some of the research, again almost two years ago) wants to chime in, we discussed and verified all of the concearns that you have mentioned.
BTW my 480whp, 495wtrq subie has small base circle ground cams. Seems to work good to.
Honestly I am so frustrated with trying to prove that it will be fine that please dont buy the cams OK .
relax chris its cool...... Just put your self in thier position. its uncharted territory for them.
Pierre, Yes I know the change is similar to a canti-lever (the best way I can think to describe it). But I checked these when we first started making these a long time ago (rice eaters head). We mocked everything up in the head and checked everything with dial indicator (I dont have the original measurements since this was a long time ago). And if WOP (as he also helped with some of the research, again almost two years ago) wants to chime in, we discussed and verified all of the concearns that you have mentioned.
BTW my 480whp, 495wtrq subie has small base circle ground cams. Seems to work good to.
Honestly I am so frustrated with trying to prove that it will be fine that please dont buy the cams OK .
Were these numbers calculated using the shims or not <-just cause i feel like it
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i wish i would've did that.
<-just cause i feel like it
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