Check Engine Light

[mailmars]

Originally Posted by TXRLU

Well I keep getting the CEL to come on from time to time, and after the 2nd time of it coming on, the dealer is convinced that its a bogus code. They claim to have called an engineer at Saturn (not sure I buy that one) and claim that there's going to be a bulletin for a bogus code if it continues to happen nationwide. Has anyone else had excessive CEL codes? Anyone else buying the story that Saturn gave me? At any rate its quite frustrating. I wonder if this qualifies for Lemon Laws??? I mean am I wrong for expecting a car that's just over a year old to operate without any trouble??

What is the code? There are hundreds if not thousands of combos that can set the SES light.

Mark

[SoupsRedline]

Hey all, I took my car to saturn today and they said my car is running lean. They gave me a code of P0171. Anyone care to explain what that is and if it worth taking back to have them look at it. I also have the K&N intake, possible culprite?? Mine light wasn't going on then off, it was on and stead for a day and still on when I took to the them this morning... hope someone can help. Thanks.

[TXRLU]

Originally Posted by mailmars

What is the code? There are hundreds if not thousands of combos that can set the SES light.

Mark

Not surprising, I'd get different answers from different dealerships. One dealership told me that it was a misfire code, another one told me it was a Supercharger inlet sensor code. I contacted Corporate to tell them that my intentions were to get an attorney and have this vehicle turned in as a lemon if I kept having problems and if I kept getting dealers telling me, "Well its just something you are going to have to learn to live with". BS in my opinion but Ehhh....

[mailmars]

Originally Posted by TXRLU

Not surprising, I'd get different answers from different dealerships. One dealership told me that it was a misfire code, another one told me it was a Supercharger inlet sensor code. I contacted Corporate to tell them that my intentions were to get an attorney and have this vehicle turned in as a lemon if I kept having problems and if I kept getting dealers telling me, "Well its just something you are going to have to learn to live with". BS in my opinion but Ehhh....

You have not said anything yet that would fit a Lemon Law claim. The way to make a lemon law claim stick is to take it back to the same dealer. Most Lemon Laws state that you have to give them a reasonable attempt to fix it. In California that is a MIN of 3 times and all depends on the problem etc.. Lemon Law claims are a very hard uphill fight for the consumer and they were written that way for a reason, to prevent someone who simply has changed their mind about the purchase from using a small complaint to make the manufacture take back what is now a used vehicle costing them thousands.
Next time you take in, make sure they put on the service order what the code in the system is, that way there is no guess work and no he said he said stuff. If they are honestly trying to fix the problem, then give them the time to really try....


Mark

P.S. If the Service Engine Soon light is set by a misfire it flashes....

[mailmars]

Originally Posted by SoupsRedline

Hey all, I took my car to saturn today and they said my car is running lean. They gave me a code of P0171. Anyone care to explain what that is and if it worth taking back to have them look at it. I also have the K&N intake, possible culprite?? Mine light wasn't going on then off, it was on and stead for a day and still on when I took to the them this morning... hope someone can help. Thanks.

The infamous lean code. Let it run as as is for a couple of weeks and it should go away if not-----check all connections of the intake, clean the MAF sensor ( very carefully), verify that O Ring seal is correctly installed and is not broken... Clean the K&N filter very thoughly and then very lightly oil the outside of the filter only......


Mark

[Horvat26]

I had the same problem that you have. They replaced my MAF, inlet tube, air filter, fixed reversed intercooler wiring, numerous computer flashes, and other things, but light is sometimes still there (5 times it has popped up. I took pictures with my phone to show them). The car is not a "lemon," as at first I looked into those steps. From what they have told me, it is a communications error that has no affect on performance. I called Saturn cust service, and they took good care of me, but you can go anywhere you want, and they'll have a hard time finding a solution to your problem. When you approach your service dept, do not display anger, and whatever you do, do not demote the Saturn brand. Just be reasonable and realistic with them, and they will not let you "suffer."
Marke

[WopOnTour]

For the purpose of Lemon Laws, the appearance of the CEL alone is generally NOT used as a critrium to establish "repeated attempts to rectify a single problem". This is because there are over 200 DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) that can command the MIL ON when a FAIL is detected.Now if it is ALWAYS the P0171 that is setting, the car is UNMODIFIED, and the dealership cannot repair the problem, given a reasonable amount of time and/or repair attempts (differs between state lemon law legislation)
It CAN be labled a "Lemon" (with of course the proper and correct legal documentation and proceedings) and the process of Saturn buying he car back can be initiated.

Whether your car qualifys for this process or not, is up to you to ascertain, within your own jurisdiction.
Certainly once you have contacted Saturn Customer service regarding repeated innaffective repair attempts, they will usually get Field Engineering involved, and contact you to let you know it has reached that level.

There IS a current PRELIMINARY bulletin (NOT a TSB...yet) outlining potential causes for repeat P0171
Hopefully your dealership is effectivly using "the system" and is looking at these potential items, the most common being:
-loose, misaligned air inlet fittings
-misformed pleats on aircleaner
* if the air cleaner has been replaced MAKE SURE IT IS THE CORRECT PART NUMBER! THE PARTS INFORMATION LISTS TWO FILTERS FOR THE LSJ BUT ONE IS FOR THE RL THE OTHER FOR THE COBALT SS!!

2005-2006 Chevrolet Cobalt SS should use GM Part Number 15239447 (AC # A2975C)
2004-2006 Saturn Ion Redline should use Saturn Part Number 15036141 (AC # A2014C)

-unseated oil dipstick
and less common but observed:
-a small hole worn into your air intake snorkel by a ground stud (G102). This ground stud is the one near the inlet on the upper radiator tie bar (basically behind the LH headlamp) If this is contacting the snorkel it should be removed and cut down to be 1/4-3/8" shorter and reinstalled.
<edit> I actually think this one might be affecting the Cobalts more than the Redline as their inlet is definately running much closer to G102.<edit>

I hope you get these problems rectified to your satisfaction as the Ion Redline really is a great car.(As many here will attest!)
Unfortunately sometimes a combination of unforseen factors prevent certain diagnosis and repairs from occuring in a timely fashion.But often, with a bit of patience and perstitance from EVERYONE involved- it will all get resolved, and you can get back to enjoying your car.

Regards
WopOnTour

[Sp00ner]

Unseated oil dipstick? Really? Anyone ever check that one? That's wierd...

[pclear9061]

i think the oil dipstick is ummmmmm crap who was it, it was being discussed like fri or sat about how the dip stick keeps comeing out of its hole. remember that ?

[WopOnTour]

Originally Posted by Sp00ner

Unseated oil dipstick? Really? Anyone ever check that one? That's wierd...

Yea, I'm not 100% convinced of that one either. (but it's in the preliminary buletin)
I guess if your crankcase is vented at the dispstick , it can affect mass airflow at certain throttle openings as it will have an impact on how the crankcase venting system (through the valve cover and to the pipe to your inlet and vented orfice in your intake manifold) behaves.

I dont know HOW you will be able to keep it seated without maybe securing it as under boost crankcase pressures appear to ovecome whatever friction exists in the dipstick seal to dipstick tube.
WOT