First engine issue? (rough idle)

[SLSduke82]

Originally Posted by Sp00ner

Ok, if that's the only issue, I'm not sure what they're gonna do for people. Did you have the car this past winter? Or is this the first?

If everyone else here is having the identical issue. The car takes 8-10 seconds to get itself warmed up to a point where it idle's steady, I'm not sure what you're looking for exactly. Cars have to warm up, the metal has to warm to a point where fuel can remain atomized in the suspension. Until the car's cyls have reached normal temps, you're sucking several points of compression right out of the engine, along with a very rich running condition. To me, you're seeing the car go through that exact process in that 8-10 seconds...

This will be the first winter.

To me, it seems abnormal to drop to such a low RPM, to the point where a stall threatened, and the car chugged and shuddered a little. Someone not OVERLY familiar with cars would freak out and take it to the dealer soon as they could. I'm just looking into things, first.

I've owned a number of cars, and all seemed to act the same on start up. Higher revs, then settle onto a set idle. The RL settles at 1,000 most other times and idles. This dropping to 500 or so, to where the car shakes, can't be right.

Or if it can, one of those, gotta deal with it...and explain to passengers, like, "yeah...it's, uh, all that power"

[Sp00ner]

Originally Posted by SLSduke82

This will be the first winter.

To me, it seems abnormal to drop to such a low RPM, to the point where a stall threatened, and the car chugged and shuddered a little. Someone not OVERLY familiar with cars would freak out and take it to the dealer soon as they could. I'm just looking into things, first.

I've owned a number of cars, and all seemed to act the same on start up. Higher revs, then settle onto a set idle. The RL settles at 1,000 most other times and idles. This dropping to 500 or so, to where the car shakes, can't be right.

Or if it can, one of those, gotta deal with it...and explain to passengers, like, "yeah...it's, uh, all that power"

Not trying to belittle you concerns or anything like that. To me, from a background of carbed V8's and such, this thing starts like a champ. The SC2 I had would start 'smoother' in cold weather, but my fuel injected Camaro would stall all the time in the cold, usually only when it was real cold.

I know the issue you're talking about well, just wanted to make sure that it wasn't something that was occuring for the next few mins driving around.

If you're ever outside of the car, you will notice something that goes along with the timing of this event. I hop in every morning, start it up, hop out, and head inside. The one thing that I've always noticed about the RL when it starts in the cold, is that NO exhaust comes out of the tail pipe for 3-5 seconds, and when it does, the car makes an audible change in idle.

In my '77 Vette, the stock exhaust system had a device that blocked off most of the exhaust flow on one side of the header. Called a heat riser. This is supposed to help warm the car up and reduce emissions, something like that. I'm wondering if the RL has something similar. The results when it was installed are very similar. The car stumbles real bad for a few seconds, any touch of the gas will most likely stall the car before 30 seconds to a minute goes by.

[SLSduke82]

Originally Posted by Sp00ner

Not trying to belittle you concerns or anything like that. To me, from a background of carbed V8's and such, this thing starts like a champ. The SC2 I had would start 'smoother' in cold weather, but my fuel injected Camaro would stall all the time in the cold, usually only when it was real cold.

I know the issue you're talking about well, just wanted to make sure that it wasn't something that was occuring for the next few mins driving around.

If you're ever outside of the car, you will notice something that goes along with the timing of this event. I hop in every morning, start it up, hop out, and head inside. The one thing that I've always noticed about the RL when it starts in the cold, is that NO exhaust comes out of the tail pipe for 3-5 seconds, and when it does, the car makes an audible change in idle.

In my '77 Vette, the stock exhaust system had a device that blocked off most of the exhaust flow on one side of the header. Called a heat riser. This is supposed to help warm the car up and reduce emissions, something like that. I'm wondering if the RL has something similar. The results when it was installed are very similar. The car stumbles real bad for a few seconds, any touch of the gas will most likely stall the car before 30 seconds to a minute goes by.

My experience with cars on cold mornings include: '91 Grand Prix, '97 Continental, '92/'02 Astro, '02 Elantra, and now the RL. The last a very different car than all of the above.

So, yes, I also noticed the exhaust delay. And the car runs fine after it gets going (or I goose it).

Thus, you're most likely correct. Just the setup. I'll keep an eye on it!

[djt81185]

Originally Posted by SLSduke82

It does it while parked. I get in the car after its been sitting for 7+ hours (either morning or after work). Start it up. Does the low RPM chug, ECU bumps the engine up to 2000 RPM, and it smooths out before I even go. It's done it a total of three times now.

Once moving, *knock on wood*, haven't had an issue.

Mine does the same exact thing and I bought it in Pittsburgh...maybe its just a car from there thing? Its done it atleast 4 times now...and I don't think it is normal at all...even at 0 degrees or colder my DOHC neon with 120k just cranked and started and set into its cold idle of 1100..no weird idle sputters. If you try to drive it before the ecu sorts it out it will flood like no other...chug...and stall...I only did that once...now I just let it warm up for 30 seconds.

Dan

[WopOnTour]

SLS
This sounds similar to the cold drivability issue that the recal released last Feb was looking to address. Are you sure your car has had the latest calibrations put in?

But it could be just a normal "flare" from the AC compressor compensation that I have noticed as well. Where is your heater set at usually for this to manifest? Defrost I presume? See if it's better or eliminated with the heater on OFF before you start up. (just to confirm) What happens is the AC compressor still gets commanded ON in defrost so that on cool wet days the defrost air will be dehumidified before thowing it up on the windshield. So when I have seen what you describe occur, you start it up it first idles normal for cold engine (1000-1200) then the clutch kicks in dragging it down towards stall- so it trys to "catch it" from stalling and seems to overshoot (raising the idle to 1500 rpm+) then settles back to normal. Does this sound like what it's doing?
Regards
Wop

[vannatte]

I'd suggest using "Goo Gone" to remove any sticky residue...that stuff works great.

[Kirtsky]

I thought about that and have tried it with the AC full off, and still it happens. It actually stops running for that half second when it dips, and that is when it throws more throttle at itself. But why would it do it sometimes and not others? Seems random, then it will happen two or three days in a row. I have owned some bad cold weather vehicles, but nothing like what tyhis one does, and mine has done it during the summer also, so not sure it is just cold. I have black deposit on my driveway, and they replaced my injectors saying they were "blackened". Also, when it starts, it puts off a strong exhuast smell when it does the sputter start.

The rpm drop at start is not a steady drop, it just cuts off. as it dies, it gets more throttle and fires back up to 2000. Sometimes it tries to die again right away, and the throttle comes back again. But sometimes it does it just the one time. Frustrating is what it is.

Originally Posted by WopOnTour

SLS
This sounds similar to the cold drivability issue that the recal released last Feb was looking to address. Are you sure your car has had the latest calibrations put in?

But it could be just a normal "flare" from the AC compressor compensation that I have noticed as well. Where is your heater set at usually for this to manifest? Defrost I presume? See if it's better or eliminated with the heater on OFF before you start up. (just to confirm) What happens is the AC compressor still gets commanded ON in defrost so that on cool wet days the defrost air will be dehumidified before thowing it up on the windshield. So when I have seen what you describe occur, you start it up it first idles normal for cold engine (1000-1200) then the clutch kicks in dragging it down towards stall- so it trys to "catch it" from stalling and seems to overshoot (raising the idle to 1500 rpm+) then settles back to normal. Does this sound like what it's doing?
Regards
Wop

[SLSduke82]

Originally Posted by WopOnTour

SLS
This sounds similar to the cold drivability issue that the recal released last Feb was looking to address. Are you sure your car has had the latest calibrations put in?

But it could be just a normal "flare" from the AC compressor compensation that I have noticed as well. Where is your heater set at usually for this to manifest? Defrost I presume? See if it's better or eliminated with the heater on OFF before you start up. (just to confirm) What happens is the AC compressor still gets commanded ON in defrost so that on cool wet days the defrost air will be dehumidified before thowing it up on the windshield. So when I have seen what you describe occur, you start it up it first idles normal for cold engine (1000-1200) then the clutch kicks in dragging it down towards stall- so it trys to "catch it" from stalling and seems to overshoot (raising the idle to 1500 rpm+) then settles back to normal. Does this sound like what it's doing?
Regards
Wop

My defrost HAS been on during startup. I'll try again with it off.

And, yes, you described my issue exactly.

However, after leaving work earlier and heading back to my car (which sat for about 9 hours), I started up WITH NO ISSUES. The last three startups have done as you described. I can't recall if the heater was on or off.

And the change? The weather. It was still about 40 degrees F, but first day without rain (rain stopped mid-morning) in about a week. And first start where it settled on idle just fine.

It's supposed to be cold tomorrow morn, without rain. I'll start the car up first w/o the heater on. See if it starts up fine. If so, turn it off, crank the heat, and see what a second startup does.

I'll post the results tomorrow morning. Keeping my fingers crossed!

[Kirtsky]

I'll do the same, we'll compare notes. Only thing is, once the car is running, It won't do it again for me. But mine did it this afternoon after 9 hours of sitting, but it was only in the 60's today, not very cold and not very humid.

If it is the compressor, cuold having the AC on do the same thing?

Damn Gremlins...

[Kirtsky]

Okay, turned off all air controls this morning, and she started just fine. Tried once more with the air on full, but of course, once it has started once, it will start fine after that. Tomorrow i will try with the ontrols on.