Cold Start

[CSCC 148]

How many people with Red Lines are still experiencing cold start issues? Mine has been having issues the last two weeks when the temp drops below 40 degrees (and I know that isn't really that cold).

So, how many are still having issues and has the dealer been able to solve the problem? Has anyone contacted Saturn Corp. and asked about this?

Just trying to see how widespread the issue is. Thanks for posting meaningful replies.

[SilverRedLine04]

well i guess i can atleast tell you my story of cold starts.

my clutch squeeks alot
the cars lould as hell on start up, and it idles just fine.
once i drive off its ok, but when i go to shift into 2nd it surges ALOT
and it feels really strange, almost like i have lost alot of power.

once it warms up it runs like a dream, maybe they just dont like the cold.

keith-

[silver05rl]

i live in laramie, wyoming and i have the worst problem ever w/ cold start!its happened like 4 or 5 times in the past two weeks.i'm gettin very sick of this cuz its definitly dumping fuel into the engine w/o trying to ignite so when it does start 20 min later its runs richer than hell and i'm sure its washing out my rings!And the dealership pretty much just ignores me on the situation up here.

[Sp00ner]

What do you mean by 'cold start issues'?

Every time someone brings this up, 300 people respond, and some of the responses are like "Yeah, I have an issue, my shift knob is too cold..." So, before we get 100 replies like that, what do you mean by 'issue'...

Now, my car runs jumpy as hell for the first 5-10 mins, but so has pretty much every other car I've owned. This one is a little worse, than my last Saturn, or my V6 Firebird, but nothing that would make me complain.

I know some people have an issue, where the car won't stay running. That's the one that I'm really interested in...

[racenpilot]

The car lacking a little power when it is first started is perfectly normal. Basically, the car is protecting itself against someone getting in the car with cold thick oil, and a cold engine, and runnning the hell out of it. I have seen more drag cars break stuff when it is real cold when they didn't warm the car up, and go out and make a pass down the track. Try starting the car, let it run for about 5-10 minutes, and then drive it. You will be suprised at the difference that it makes.

[SLSduke82]

You might find some info in the thread I started, though it's a long ass thread now:

First engine issue? (rough idle)

My problem, a rough idle, near stall, then smoothing out, happened a few times when it FIRST got cold around here. Since then, it's been as low as 20, and my car runs fine. I think the ECU had to get used to the weather, or something.

Others haven't been so lucky. Check out the thread.

Also, with hesitation, racenpilot is right. Seems normal enough. However, I also noticed that, after installing a short ram intake, hesitation is gone 1st-3rd, the only gears I really use before my car warms up.

[dL_RL]

I only had the cold start up problem before I got the last PCM recalibration. I never have any cold car driving issues because I have a remote starter and warm my car up. Even if I didn't have a remote starter. I would sit there and warm it up..

[CSCC 148]

Def'n: Cold Start Issue--(n) the engine won't start (or do much of anything) when the temperature gets cold.

I don't mean running a little strangely until warmed up; I mean not running at all. My car wouldn't even crank. No starter click--nothing. THe only thing that happens is the service engine soon light comes on. But when it warms up outside, the engine turns over right away. ANd Saturn has no idea what to do about it.

I'm trying to see how many other cars won't start at all in the cold. I have the ECU reflash and all that jazz done, and now the car won't start on cold mornings...

[racenpilot]

Maybe this fits the problem that you are having..................




Bulletin No.: 04-08-45-005

Date: May 27, 2004

TECHNICAL
Subject:
No Crank, No Start When Ambient Temperature is Cold - DTCs B2960 and or B3033 are Set (Replace Ignition Switch)

Models:
2003 and 2004 Saturn ION Vehicles
Built Prior to VIN Breakpoint 4Z210712

Attention: Technician

Condition

Some customers may comment that their vehicle will not start when the ambient temperature is cold (usually below 32°F/0°C). This comment is referred to as a "No Crank, No Start With Complete Power".

Additional comments may be as follows:
^ A clicking noise is noticed when the key is first turned to the crank position, but no noise is heard after the initial start attempt.

^ The "Security" light will flash immediately after trying to start the car along with the message "Service Vehicle" in the Driver Information Center.

^ The vehicle will not start for at least 10 minutes after the first attempt to start the vehicle. DTCs B2960 and or B3033 may be set in history in the Body Control Module (BCM).

Cause

The grease in the ignition switch may have solidified to the point where the metal contacts in the ignition switch do not make complete contact with the printed circuit board containing the PASSLOCK(TM) resistor when the key is rotated. Therefore, the BCM does not recognize the correct PASSLOCK(TM) resistance from the ignition switch when the key is turned to crank. By having this incomplete contact, the PASSLOCK(TM) resistance voltage fluctuates, causing the BCM to see a "Valid" but "Incorrect" PASSLOCK(TM) voltage. This incorrect voltage causes the BCM to not allow the crank signal to be sent to the ECM.

Correction

Replace ignition switch with P/N 10378752. The new ignition switch has a different grease that will not solidify at cold ambient temperatures (usually below 32°F/0°C).

Procedure
1. Install scan tool.

2. Verify DTC's B2960 and B3033 are present in the BCM history.

3. Install new ignition switch. Refer to the "Ignition Switch Replacement" procedures in the appropriate Saturn ION Service Manual.

4. After programming the theft deterrent system with new PASSLOCK(TM) code, connect Tech2(R) to vehicle and clear codes.

[racenpilot]

Here is one for the other issue for the running bad when cold..............


Bulletin No.: 05-06-04-006

Date: January 13, 2005

TECHNICAL
Subject:
Engine Runs Rough After Extended Crank, and/or Engine Hesitation on Acceleration after Initial Cold Start During Ambient Temperatures Below 10°C (50°F) (Reprogram Powertrain Control Module [PCM])

Models:
2004-2005 Saturn ION Red Line with 2.0L Engine (VIN P - RPO LSJ)

Attention: Fixed Operations Manager and Technician

Condition

Some customers may comment that the engine has an extended cranking period during initial cold start, followed by the engine running rough. Some customers may comment that the engine hesitates on acceleration after initial cold start. Both conditions may occur during ambient temperatures below 10°C (50°F).

Cause

This condition may be caused by the PCM calibration.

Correction

Reprogram PCM with new calibration. The new calibration improves ambient cold start ability and drivability. Refer to service procedures in this bulletin.

Service Procedures

Verify Calibration ID Number
Important: You must view calibration numbers using the TECH 2 Scan Tool and NOT the Saturn Service Stall System (SSS).

1. Connect TECH 2 scan tool to the vehicle.

Important: You must select 2004 model year for either 2004 or 2005 model year vehicles. The 2005 TECH 2 software does not support the Calibration ID function.

2. Select 2004 model year for both 2004 and 2005 model year vehicles.

3. Navigate to the 2.0L Powertrain Menu.

4. Select ID Information.

5. Select ENGINE INFORMATION.

6. Read Calibration ID.

^ If the current PCM calibration number is the same or newer than the calibration number in the "Calibration Information" table, do not reprogram the PCM. The updated calibration is already installed and reprogramming is not required. For further diagnostic information, refer to "Symptoms - Engine Controls" in the Engine Controls - 2.0L (LSJ) section of the 2005 Saturn ION Service Manual.

^ If the calibration ID number is not the same or newer than the calibration number in the "Calibration Information" table, then reprogram the PCM with the part number listed for that vehicle option content. Refer to "Reprogramming PCM" in this bulletin.

Reprogramming PCM
Important: Before installing new PCM calibration. make sure the Saturn Service Stall (SSS) version is TIS 12.0 2004 or later.

Important: While ignition is OFF, apply parking brake to disable daytime running lights (DRLs) prior to starting reprogramming procedures.

Important: Technician must select "Replace and Reprogram" option in order to reprogram the PCM.

Reprogram the PCM with the appropriate calibration listed in this bulletin.

Refer to the "Calibration Information" table to select the correct calibration for the vehicle being serviced. (If newer calibrations than those listed in the "Calibration Information" table are available, install the latest available service calibration.)

Use the Saturn Service Stall System (SSS) software version 12.0 2004 or later data CD. Refer to "Service Programming System" (SPS) in the SSS User Guide and "Service Programming System (SPS)" in the Vehicle Control Systems section of the 2005 Saturn ION Service Manual, Vol.3 for reprogramming procedures.