Pulled from the TOG thread-Time to market

[mailmars]

One of the problems that you guys are having is the time to market issue. The 2.0 LSJ is starting it's 3rd model year and you guys were about 6-9 months behind the market curve on the kit. I know a lot of people talk shit about buying new products and if the kit would have hit the streets 6 months ago you would have had a lot more cash heading your way. The fact that you released the kit about 1 month or so before GM started to float the stage upgrades had to hurt. Any prudent person would have to wait a bit to see what GM was up to.

Yep, some people talk crap all day and never put up and for some reason can't seem to shut up but blaming the slower sales simply on that is 100 percent unfair and is not genuine. In the biz that I am working in we have a time to market window on most products of about 2-3 months. If we miss, sales will be less than 1/2 of what we could have. I see no reason why the car aftermarket would be any different. Business is taking risk for reward (sales) so if you sit around wondering if you have a market and a competitor (GM stage kits) is working on the same market segment, chances are you are going lose market share.

Mark

[Mike@Psi-Fi]

Originally Posted by mailmars

One of the problems that you guys are having is the time to market issue. The 2.0 LSJ is starting it's 3rd model year and you guys were about 6-9 months behind the market curve on the kit. I know a lot of people talk shit about buying new products and if the kit would have hit the streets 6 months ago you would have had a lot more cash heading your way. The fact that you released the kit about 1 month or so before GM started to float the stage upgrades had to hurt. Any prudent person would have to wait a bit to see what GM was up to.

Yep, some people talk crap all day and never put up and for some reason can't seem to shut up but blaming the slower sales simply on that is 100 percent unfair and is not genuine. In the biz that I am working in we have a time to market window on most products of about 2-3 months. If we miss, sales will be less than 1/2 of what we could have. I see no reason why the car aftermarket would be any different. Business is taking risk for reward (sales) so if you sit around wondering if you have a market and a competitor (GM stage kits) is working on the same market segment, chances are you are going lose market share.

Mark

Okay, I have read and see the point you are trying to make, but you are trying to extrapolate examples from a company that you work for that I don't know anything about, so please don't lecture me. If it was so easy then EVERYONE would be programming the redline ECU and we would have had the kit done in a week. Yet we are still the only company to have done it so far.

We spent a lot of time and effort on the kit, and we had the kit on the street before any mention of the staged upgrades. However, we have only sold a fraction of what the interest was when we were developing the kit. Here is what I see as an issue:

1) Mis-truths. There are claims on the internet that you can install a pully and get a huge gain without doing anything else. We know that is false, we tried it, but people believe it will work because it's an internet-truth.

2) GM will come out with staged upgrades. Sure, they might come out with staged upgrades, but if the timeline and performance is the same as dodge, you won't see them for another 16 months and they won't be all they are famed to be. The hype will out stretch the truth. At this point our sales will pick up again, but thats a ways off.

3) Reality. Everyone WANTS thier car to be fast, but in truth a lot of people don't have the money to spend, or its thier parents car, or they have a warrenty, etc. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but people sometimes speak just to be part of the internet wave. If they were going to be held accountable then it would be a different story.

So as far as we are concerned, we'll come out with some motor mounts for the car, we'll do some other suspension parts, and maybe an intake and then we'll be done. The twincharge kit is nice because we are building that to be interchangeable with the NA 2.2 motor, and that seems to be where more of the interest lies.

We are always going to have the kit for sale, but don't be surprised if we don't commit 100% of our resources to the redline.

[cvenom2122]

Ill be waiting for the mounts! April is my modding month

[mailmars]

Originally Posted by Mike@Psi-Fi

Okay, I have read and see the point you are trying to make, but you are trying to extrapolate examples from a company that you work for that I don't know anything about, so please don't lecture me. If it was so easy then EVERYONE would be programming the redline ECU and we would have had the kit done in a week. Yet we are still the only company to have done it so far.

We spent a lot of time and effort on the kit, and we had the kit on the street before any mention of the staged upgrades. However, we have only sold a fraction of what the interest was when we were developing the kit. Here is what I see as an issue:

1) Mis-truths. There are claims on the internet that you can install a pully and get a huge gain without doing anything else. We know that is false, we tried it, but people believe it will work because it's an internet-truth.

2) GM will come out with staged upgrades. Sure, they might come out with staged upgrades, but if the timeline and performance is the same as dodge, you won't see them for another 16 months and they won't be all they are famed to be. The hype will out stretch the truth. At this point our sales will pick up again, but thats a ways off.

3) Reality. Everyone WANTS thier car to be fast, but in truth a lot of people don't have the money to spend, or its thier parents car, or they have a warrenty, etc. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but people sometimes speak just to be part of the internet wave. If they were going to be held accountable then it would be a different story.

So as far as we are concerned, we'll come out with some motor mounts for the car, we'll do some other suspension parts, and maybe an intake and then we'll be done. The twincharge kit is nice because we are building that to be interchangeable with the NA 2.2 motor, and that seems to be where more of the interest lies.

We are always going to have the kit for sale, but don't be surprised if we don't commit 100% of our resources to the redline.

Thats your decision to make. I was not lecturing you in any shape or manner. Marketing is marketing plain and simple. The only thing that changes is what and to whom you are trying to sell. Just simply do not blame ALL of the sales short falls on "demand now pay never crowd". I've worked in soooo many different segments that it scares me sometimes and for the most part sales and marketing is sales and marketing. I mean from Round Table pizza, a roofing comapny, Lockheed Martin, Bendix-Allied Signal, Pan-AM Sat, Hughes LAN, Litton Missile Guidance, Ixia (current), etc..... It does not change one bit.

Where you as a company choose to spend your R@D is totaly internal and I would not presume to tell you or anyone else how to spend resources. What got me was that you were blaming all of your sales shortfalls on the "demand now pay never" crowd and that is/was not completely accurate. If you would have went a couple of months eairler I can say with all honesty that I would have your kit on my car right now.


Mark

[Aeain]

Mark, I think 16 months is excessive everything we've heard from WOP, Blu, and many others is that the Stage upgrades will be out Jan-Mar timeframe.

[Vita]

Originally Posted by Aeain

Mark, I think 16 months is excessive everything we've heard from WOP, Blu, and many others is that the Stage upgrades will be out Jan-Mar timeframe.

i think they've been keeping it hush hush, but they were also supposed to be releasing the s/c kit for the 2.4 AND the 2.2 much sooner than they actually did.

[Sp00ner]

Ok all of us, lets not get into this again. Right now, we're all relying on these guys to help us out. I hear what everyone is saying, but at the same time, part of their R&D was coming on here and gauging interest. When the people that join in, fall out, that skews the numbers that they had collected. They're being shafted as much as anyone by us not jumping on products that they expected us to.

Sure, they could have gotten the products out right on the date originally planned, but that's what happens with stuff like this. K&N delayed the intake for 2-3 months as well, remember that?

Lets just not go this route. I don't think anything good can come of it.

[mark@psi-fi]

Originally Posted by mailmars

One of the problems that you guys are having is the time to market issue. The 2.0 LSJ is starting it's 3rd model year and you guys were about 6-9 months behind the market curve on the kit. I know a lot of people talk shit about buying new products and if the kit would have hit the streets 6 months ago you would have had a lot more cash heading your way. The fact that you released the kit about 1 month or so before GM started to float the stage upgrades had to hurt. Any prudent person would have to wait a bit to see what GM was up to.

Yep, some people talk crap all day and never put up and for some reason can't seem to shut up but blaming the slower sales simply on that is 100 percent unfair and is not genuine. In the biz that I am working in we have a time to market window on most products of about 2-3 months. If we miss, sales will be less than 1/2 of what we could have. I see no reason why the car aftermarket would be any different. Business is taking risk for reward (sales) so if you sit around wondering if you have a market and a competitor (GM stage kits) is working on the same market segment, chances are you are going lose market share.

Mark

Ok i'll bite,

people are waiting on a GM upgrade that runs a 3.0 pulley to 6500rpm or so well if you do the math their kit spins the blower to the exact same rpm as our kit does Ie the HP will be the same but its gonna make less torque everywhere. Also on the tuner challenge GM made 21 whp on a purpose built car and we're making 30-50% more than that with just our kit. We put alot of time and effort into the kit and didnt release till we felt we had a reliable system that didnt code and DTC and leave people in limp mode when trying to merge on a highway with an 18 wheeler barrelling down behind them...did this delay till it was right possibly cost us a few sales? yeah maybe, but we did what we thought was right and we have a clear conscience because of it.

FYI there was and is no market curve on the redline/cobalt, thus far most is vaporware and attempts to hold people off from purchasing already to market parts.(we have seen this before and few if any have panned out as expected) We are still going to develop much higher hp alternatives to this platform and already have a bunch of knowledge on how to do so. what our dilemma currently is, is should we put 100% time and effort into the project till its complete or should we start the next project that we "know" will sell and already have solid commitments on?

first and foremost we are car guys, anyone that has met us can attest to that, but at the end of the day we are running a business and our money and most importantly our TIME must be spent in the right avenue. Time has always been our biggest problem as a company and we have taken steps recently to take alot of the time burden off of us(setting up regional installer/distributors). we are committed to the various ecotec platforms as we feel with GM backed engine support and the proven abilities of the engine on the track that its an awesome platform. Hell maybe some of it will wind up on another project that this engine platform does not come in in the US market

[Blue04RedLine]

As much as I respect you guys and appreciate your work on this project, it's not something feasable for me to purchase at this time (no matter how much I wouldl love to). The only dealers that I know would warranty my car with this kit on if God forbid something happened, are back down in south florida when I'min central florida. I sure can't tow it all the way back down, and I just don't have the money to cover what/if's. After or sometime during the winter, when I see what the cold weather does to this kit (any new codes and such) I can be even more positive in the tune and even less hesitant about things going wrong and convince myself to worry less and just buy the damn thing. I just know that until I can cover the unnexpected, I can't venture into the performance. Having the car not running is not an option right now for me, no matter how slim the chance. Sorry guys, but I have faith in you, and maybe by then you'll have the twin charge done, which is something I'm really looking forward to seeing completed. I would love you throw that in (with w/e other supporting mods of course) and be at the power level I had hoped for in a reliable dd. So please do keep us updated with that project as well. By then maybe I can say screw the warranty as well.