OEM foglights, 04-05 No Harness

[mailmars]

The final logic circuit is posted here with the integrated parts list. If you want your fogs as close to OEM as possible, this is the cat's meow. I do hope there is another way but as of now, nope....


Mark

P.S. I have no problem answering any questions and comments are welcome.

[dam718]

Mark, Question for ya...

Will this same logic circuit work with aftermarket fogs?

My plan for now is to get the grill insert with the fog cutouts and install some hella fog lamps instead of the stock lamps... They're cheaper, and probably the same lamp, or the hella is slightly better.

Anyway, I still want to use the stock switch, just aftermarket lamps...

Any thoughts on this?

Here is the URL for the lamps I want to use:

http://www.hella.com/produktion/Hell...E/Micro_DE.jsp

[mailmars]

Originally Posted by dam718

Mark, Question for ya...

Will this same logic circuit work with aftermarket fogs?

My plan for now is to get the grill insert with the fog cutouts and install some hella fog lamps instead of the stock lamps... They're cheaper, and probably the same lamp, or the hella is slightly better.

Anyway, I still want to use the stock switch, just aftermarket lamps...

Any thoughts on this?

Here is the URL for the lamps I want to use:

http://www.hella.com/produktion/Hell...E/Micro_DE.jsp

It should work just fine...I do not see any reason why this could not drive ANY relay that you would decide to hook up to it. Just a couple of points of explanation.

1) BATT1 is to keep IC1 powered so that it maintains state. This draws the killer power of 4mA. If you power down the circuit it comes back up in the OFF state (RC circuit, pin 8).

2) You need to tie all of the ground points together at the ground terminal and I would put the ground side of D1 directly to this. DO NOT FORGET D1. The diode is reverse biased to shunt the relay coil kickback voltage to ground. If you do not put the diode in, then every time the relay is turned off it will kickback reverse polarity voltage and kill Q3.

The reason I bring the diode up, there has already been 1 person that has built the circuit and a "electronics genius friend" did not see any reason for it so he left it out and blew Q3 about 4 times before he bothered to ask and of course, until this was figured out the circuit was shit.

Construction hint: I used all flame resistant resistors for safety. I would recommend that but they are not required, just something to think about.`


Mark

[dam718]

Another short series of questions for you...

1 - Do you know of a good source for obtaining the components for the logic circuit?

2 - With regards to IC1, is CD4013B the only number that will work? I have found several other IC's that have a close number but are not exact, such as: CD4013BE, CD4013BF, CD4013BEX, etc...

3 - Also with regards to IC1, I am reading the pinouts as follows:

Pin 1 - Shorted to Pin 11 and routed to C2
Pin 3 - Shorted to Pin's 5, 7, and 10
Pin 4 - Routed to R4 and Q1 Collector
Pin 5 - Shorted to Pin's 3, 7, and 10
Pin 6 - Routed to Q3 Collector and R8
Pin 7 - Shorted to Pin's 3, 5, and 10 and routed to ground
Pin 8 - Routed to R10
Pin 9 - Shorted to Pin 12 and routed to Q3 Base
Pin 10 - Shorted to Pin's 3, 5, and 7
Pin 11 - Shorted to Pin 1
Pin 12 - Shorted to Pin 9
Pin 14 - Routed to R1, R4 (Opposite Pin 4), C1, and C3

Unlisted Pins not used...

That's what I am seeing... Some of the lines I'm not real sure about, so I wanted to ask the question now before I get knee deep in shit and can't get out...

4 - Does the OEM switch not have any internal illumination? I don't see any provisions listed for this...

5 - You mentioned the +12V input at T1 is a constant source providing power to the IC in order for it to maintain state, which is cool. It would seem the main purpose behind this is to ultimately provide a trigger for the stock relay on T4. Is the input coming in from the C3-D2 fuse the actual trigger voltage? Or is this a negative trigger and I am unclear what the T3 terminal is for?

Here is what my interpretation of your logic is, just so we're on the same page "logically"

T1 - +12V in to supply power to the logic circuit itself (memory voltage, if you will...)
T6 - Logic circuit ground

T5 & T2 short together which changes logic state.

When logic state is open, no voltage is passed...

When logic state is closed, voltage is passed via T3 to T4

Is this all correct? If not, would you mind explaining the circuit in detail?

Thanks!

Dave

[mailmars]

***I am going to answer in text*********

Another short series of questions for you...

1 - Do you know of a good source for obtaining the components for the logic circuit?

a)http://www.moyerelectronics.com/

2 - With regards to IC1, is CD4013B the only number that will work? I have found several other IC's that have a close number but are not exact, such as: CD4013BE, CD4013BF, CD4013BEX, etc...

a)The NTE number is NTE4013BT I believe but the Moyer website has a crossreference guide, just enter the numbers as I have them on the sheet. I used the generic so that would be easy.

3 - Also with regards to IC1, I am reading the pinouts as follows:

Pin 1 - Shorted to Pin 11 and routed to C2
Pin 3 - Shorted to Pin's 5, 7, and 10
Pin 4 - Routed to R4 and Q1 Collector
Pin 5 - Shorted to Pin's 3, 7, and 10
Pin 6 - Routed to Q3 Collector and R8
Pin 7 - Shorted to Pin's 3, 5, and 10 and routed to ground
Pin 8 - Routed to R10
Pin 9 - Shorted to Pin 12 and routed to Q3 Base
Pin 10 - Shorted to Pin's 3, 5, and 7
Pin 11 - Shorted to Pin 1
Pin 12 - Shorted to Pin 9
Pin 14 - Routed to R1, R4 (Opposite Pin 4), C1, and C3

Unlisted Pins not used...

That's what I am seeing... Some of the lines I'm not real sure about, so I wanted to ask the question now before I get knee deep in shit and can't get out...

a) the above is correct

4 - Does the OEM switch not have any internal illumination? I don't see any provisions listed for this...

a) there are 4 terminals on the OEM switch. I will attach the OEM diagram to help clear this up. You will need to get to circuit 8 ( IP dimmer ) and 151 ( ground )

5 - You mentioned the +12V input at T1 is a constant source providing power to the IC in order for it to maintain state, which is cool. It would seem the main purpose behind this is to ultimately provide a trigger for the stock relay on T4. Is the input coming in from the C3-D2 fuse the actual trigger voltage? Or is this a negative trigger and I am unclear what the T3 terminal is for?

a) T3 provides the 12 volts to energize the relay and is switched via that transitor ( just noticed typeO on drawing that should be Q2, I will fix tonight)
T4 GOES to the OEM Relay and T5 goes to the switch ( this drives the LED in the switch).

Here is what my interpretation of your logic is, just so we're on the same page "logically"

T1 - +12V in to supply power to the logic circuit itself (memory voltage, if you will...)
T6 - Logic circuit ground

T5 & T2 short together which changes logic state.

a) T5 is either relay or LED voltage, depends on what you wanted to use, in the box I have T5 listed as going to the switch. T2 connects to the switch and when the switch is pressed it goes to ground, that turns Q3 on and raises the voltage across R8 to 12 volts and takes pin 6 high. This was my way of not using an active voltage source through the switch.

When logic state is open, no voltage is passed...

When logic state is closed, voltage is passed via T3 to T4

a) T3 goes to 12 volts when you turn on the parking light circuit. When the logic is low on pin 12 and 9 nothing happens, open circuit when the logic goes high it provides about 2mA to the base of Q2 and that saturates the transistor and engergizes the realy from the emitter of Q2.

Is this all correct? If not, would you mind explaining the circuit in detail?

a) 12 volts on T1 supplies IC1 and Q1 and Q3. When you ground the base of Q3 it saturates and provides 12 volts to pin 6, that triggers the clock output of pin 1 which generates a single clock pulse. The clock pulse is inverted by Q1 and that drives pin 4 ( the clock from pin 1 is negitive so we need to flip it and amplify it above 10 volts) When the device sees a clock it toggles the d flop that is providing the Q and Q/bar outputs on 12 and 9. It toggles everytime it sees a clock on pin 4. So one clock will toggle Q output high another clock toggles the output low. The RC on pin 8 holds the set state so that it always powers up off.

Thanks!

Dave

I will try attaching both the fog diagrams and the Under hood fuse box break out provide by WOT (Thanks again) but if needed I will attach to another post. ALSO BE ADVISED you only need to remove the battery post and EPS nut to split the fuse box. You do not need to take the whole thing apart ( learned via experience)

Hell I need your e-mail address to send the files, TO BIG by about 100K..Shit.. so PM me your e-mail....

[dam718]

It's all making sense now... For some reason I was thinking that the factory switch shorted accross T2 and T5 when pressed... Knowing that T2 is being grounded out when the button is pressed and that T5 is supplying LED power (I'm guessing T4 and T5 are interchangable...) clears up a lot of confusion!

I appreciate anything you can offer via drawings or the like...

Thanks for everything so far, it's a big help!

[dam718]

Crap, last question, I promise...

For now...

T3 taps into the parking light power, is this the stock configuration? I assume here that you can use low beam 12V if you only want the fogs on when the low beams are on?

On past cars equipped with OEM fogs, they were only on when the low beams were on... Parking lights would not switch the fog relay... And when high beams were energized, the fogs turned off...

If the stock config triggers the relay from the parking lamps, then that's what I'll do... But I'd rather have it coming off the low beams to be honest...

[mailmars]

Originally Posted by dam718

Crap, last question, I promise...

For now...

T3 taps into the parking light power, is this the stock configuration? I assume here that you can use low beam 12V if you only want the fogs on when the low beams are on?

On past cars equipped with OEM fogs, they were only on when the low beams were on... Parking lights would not switch the fog relay... And when high beams were energized, the fogs turned off...

If the stock config triggers the relay from the parking lamps, then that's what I'll do... But I'd rather have it coming off the low beams to be honest...

In the OEM config the Fogs would come on with the parking lamps and the low beams and off with the high beams. In this config the lamps are on with parking thru high beams. In regards to the high beams, I have no idea about other states but the California Vehicle Code sec 24400 is silent in regards to fogs being on. All it says is that they can not be used as a substitute for standard headlamps, and it has some hight and beam requirements but nothing in regards to just the high beams.

In the stock config the relay voltage comes from the BCM (there is one of the gotchas) and so does the LED Light. If you will notice in the OEM fog light diagrams both are circuit #317 (yellow) hence the use of T4 and T5 being tied to the same line in the logic circuit.

Just remember what you are doing, you are replacing the functions of the BCM. Where the BCM is outlined is now the logic circuit that you are building. Now, you can reconfig this easy. If you want the fogs on ONLY with the low beams tap the low beam circuit UNDER THE HOOD and take that to T3, easy. I could have put another transitor switch in to turn off the fogs with the high beams but like I said, I could not find anything in the local vehicle code so I did not bother.

Mark

Oh yea... updated the drawing to correctly label Q2 and marked the polarity of the caps...

[dam718]

So I should be able to take T3 to the underhood fusebox at pin C3-B10, and when the voltage from T3 dies (from the low beams being turned off), the output signals on T4 and T5 will die as well?

I could check this next part with a meter, but if you know already I figure I'll ask the expert...

Is power from the battery already being supplied to the Fog Lamp fuse in the fuse box, fuse #17?

If the fuse box is wired, but the BCM is not, what I am seeing is that I should be able to plug in a 15A fuse into the #17 socket, plug in a relay into the #26 relay socket, and route T4 of the logic circuit to C2-E10 in the fuse box.

Are C3-C12 and C3-D12 already wired as well? These are the outputs from the fog lamp relay that send voltage to the lamps. If so, are they routed anywhere in particular to grab their tails and wire them up? Or just cut them?

Sorry for all the questions... Like I said, I want to go in here with a clear mission and know exactly what I want to accomplish before I just start tearing shit apart all willy nilly...

[mailmars]

Originally Posted by dam718

So I should be able to take T3 to the underhood fusebox at pin C3-B10, and when the voltage from T3 dies (from the low beams being turned off), the output signals on T4 and T5 will die as well?

I could check this next part with a meter, but if you know already I figure I'll ask the expert...

Is power from the battery already being supplied to the Fog Lamp fuse in the fuse box, fuse #17?

If the fuse box is wired, but the BCM is not, what I am seeing is that I should be able to plug in a 15A fuse into the #17 socket, plug in a relay into the #26 relay socket, and route T4 of the logic circuit to C2-E10 in the fuse box.

Are C3-C12 and C3-D12 already wired as well? These are the outputs from the fog lamp relay that send voltage to the lamps. If so, are they routed anywhere in particular to grab their tails and wire them up? Or just cut them?

Sorry for all the questions... Like I said, I want to go in here with a clear mission and know exactly what I want to accomplish before I just start tearing shit apart all willy nilly...

If you turn the power off on T3 then there is nothing to switch, the source for the base current is still there so when you reenergize T3 the transistor switchs back on and the lights come back on without user interaction. The statement that if you run a line from T4 to C2-E10 is correct.

The buss in the fuse box is there, the wiring is not. What that means is any thing that has to LEAVE the fuse box you are have to make those connections. The circuit for C3-C12 and D12 you have to run those, the line from T4 to the relay, you have to run. The internal stuff ie.. power for the fuse and switch side of the relay is there.


Mark