Steering Knuckles for Competitive Driving & Alignment Specs - Page 3 - Saturn ION RedLine Forums
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post #21 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-05-2007, 09:17 AM
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So they do not give you better handeling, less wheel hop, or anything like that?

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post #22 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-05-2007, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle_f90
So they do not give you better handeling, less wheel hop, or anything like that?
They give you better handling, but you have to adjust the alignment to do so, and that type of alignment isn't recommended for street use. They help reduce bumpsteer on lowered cars because of their affect on the alignment. Wheel hop is supposed to be addressed with a different geometry engine and transmission mount set, but I haven't heard what's up with it yet.

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post #23 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-05-2007, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Are you sure Eco?

-1 1/2 Degrees is a very noticable amount of negative camber. Given the low camber gain of a Mcpherson strut I'd be very surprised if a 1" drop alone would give you that. You would also burn up the inside edge of the tire in very short order on the street.

Pierre
I agree about the camber, and specialized in suspension and chassis as a tech. I run -1.15 in the front and -1.0(or as close as possible) in the rear. The main concren is the effect of the control arm to strut angle being greater than 90 degees(ideal), thus changing the travel vs angle dynamics while turning. The decreased angle with the longer lower control arms would lessen the travel of the arm, decreasing the availble change in negative camber during turning. It may not sound like much, but if you have driven 2 cars, one with a 90 degree condition and a 100 degree condition, the corner handling is noticably more difficult in the latter of the two.

'06 Red IRL Comp. Pkg.

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Lots of crap done, just as much sitting in the garage...
...but I do shoot flames out my exhaust!!!
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post #24 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-05-2007, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabodah
They give you better handling, but you have to adjust the alignment to do so, and that type of alignment isn't recommended for street use. They help reduce bumpsteer on lowered cars because of their affect on the alignment. Wheel hop is supposed to be addressed with a different geometry engine and transmission mount set, but I haven't heard what's up with it yet.
It's not wheel hop that is being addressed with the mounts, its bump steer again. I want to campaign BWoody to make us a solid mount set that rotates the motor forward as suggested in the GM build book, as well as small spacers for raising the steering rack. Doing that reduces bump steer by changing the angle of effect on the rack, making road input less direct on the tie rods.

'06 Red IRL Comp. Pkg.

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Lots of crap done, just as much sitting in the garage...
...but I do shoot flames out my exhaust!!!
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post #25 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-05-2007, 10:08 AM
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I thought the new design mounts were part of this:

Subject: Transmission fluid Leak Slipping Clutch Or Broken Axle Shaft - keywords crack housing shift slip #PIP3932 - (09/29/2006)



Models: 2005-2007 Chevrolet Cobalt SS

2004-2007 Saturn Ion Redline

Equipped with a 5-Speed Manual Transmission (RPO MU3)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
Some customers have commented about transmission oil in the clutch housing, slipping clutches or broken axle shafts on this model. An analysis of several of these failures has revealed that the problem is due to excessive front wheel hop during WOT acceleration events.

Excessive wheel hop transmits a torsional shock load into the transmission case. This causes the case to crack and transmission fluid to leak into the clutch housing. See photos below.

Recommendation/Instructions:
Stiffer axle shafts and hardware will change the system harmonics and help prevent wheel hop. These planned changes will not be available until the 2008 model year.

Note:: Be advised that failures of this nature are abuse. They are NOT defects in materials or workmanship for which General Motors would be responsible and should not be covered under the terms of the new vehicle warranty. Vehicles with this complaint should be inspected by the dealer and Area Vehicle Manager. A product report should be submitted on each.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.



GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION


Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

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post #26 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-05-2007, 10:27 AM
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Yes, the new motor mounts that will be introduced for production in '08 on the CSS. They will be offered as an upgrade from what I understand in the future, but not as of yet. The steering knuckles have nothing to do with the wheel hop, and the function of the mounts in the performance builds are 1) to increase throttle response and reduce wheel hop, as the BWoody ones do, and 2) they also changed the mount design to rotate the motor slightly forward to allow clearance for the raising of the steering rack to further reduce bump steer.

'06 Red IRL Comp. Pkg.

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Lots of crap done, just as much sitting in the garage...
...but I do shoot flames out my exhaust!!!
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post #27 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-05-2007, 11:32 AM
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Just took a look at the GMPP knuckles and compared them to stock, they are much beefier, and the strut to knuckle mount is moved slightly further away from the wheel. I'll try and put up some pics tonight after work.

'06 Red IRL Comp. Pkg.

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Lots of crap done, just as much sitting in the garage...
...but I do shoot flames out my exhaust!!!
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post #28 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-05-2007, 11:35 AM
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seen this thread awhile back and i was just wondering whos got em anyone

2002 black on black Corvette Z06
LQ9 based 402 Stroker built by Charlie at RPM Motors
. AFR 225 cylinder heads 2.08/1.60 valves W/ Yella Terra 1.7 Roller Rockers
. Rx Dual Valve Oil Catch Can
. Custom ground blower spec cam
A&A YSi Vortech Supercharger
. Kooks headers
Textralia Exoskell Tripple disk clutch
level V transmission and level IV diff DTE trans brace
Custom Fuel System
6 Rib Direct Drive System.
AEM Methanol Injection System
. A bunch of WHP gobs of WTQ.
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post #29 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-05-2007, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eco-Mod
It's not wheel hop that is being addressed with the mounts, its bump steer again. I want to campaign BWoody to make us a solid mount set that rotates the motor forward as suggested in the GM build book, as well as small spacers for raising the steering rack. Doing that reduces bump steer by changing the angle of effect on the rack, making road input less direct on the tie rods.
the spacers for the steering rack would be a easy piece to make not to mention they would be as MGM 1979 always says "money"

BWOODY make em please!!!!!!!

2002 black on black Corvette Z06
LQ9 based 402 Stroker built by Charlie at RPM Motors
. AFR 225 cylinder heads 2.08/1.60 valves W/ Yella Terra 1.7 Roller Rockers
. Rx Dual Valve Oil Catch Can
. Custom ground blower spec cam
A&A YSi Vortech Supercharger
. Kooks headers
Textralia Exoskell Tripple disk clutch
level V transmission and level IV diff DTE trans brace
Custom Fuel System
6 Rib Direct Drive System.
AEM Methanol Injection System
. A bunch of WHP gobs of WTQ.
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post #30 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-05-2007, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eco-Mod
I agree about the camber, and specialized in suspension and chassis as a tech. I run -1.15 in the front and -1.0(or as close as possible) in the rear. The main concren is the effect of the control arm to strut angle being less than 90 degees(ideal), thus changing the travel vs angle dynamics while turning. The decreased angle with the longer lower control arms would lessen the travel of the arm, decreasing the availble change in camber during turning. It may not sound like much, but if you ave driven 2 cars, one with a 90 degree condition and a 70 degree condition, the corner handling is noticably more difficult in the latter of the two.
I'm not considering the Cobalt arms in this discussion.

Don't you want less than 90 degrees at static ride hight? you should hit 90 deg somewhere in the middle of your wheel travel or towords the latter part. That way you minimize the track displacement through wheel travel and will have the most camber gain when the car rolls to the extent that you can with a mcperson strut. If you start at 90 you can only go down in the angle from there.


PS how did you camber the rears?

Pierre

Last edited by Pierre; 02-05-2007 at 11:42 AM.
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