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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-21-2008, 09:40 PM
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They aren't cheaper, but they aren't that much more expensive

$563 for 17x10's

They don't post the weights

'04 RL, Pedder's XA coilovers

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alredline04
They aren't cheaper, but they aren't that much more expensive

$563 for 17x10's

They don't post the weights
i put j line on a couple of cobalt race cars, nice wheel not too heavy not the lightest, good quality at that price, complete custom wheel rock light and you get what you pay for, but CCW doesn't care about anything less than 19,20 22 etc...these days lol its where the market is yo!
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikredline11
i put j line on a couple of cobalt race cars, nice wheel not too heavy not the lightest, good quality at that price, complete custom wheel rock light and you get what you pay for, but CCW doesn't care about anything less than 19,20 22 etc...these days lol its where the market is yo!
I know, I wish I coudl find some simple, light, 5-spoke 16"x 8"/8.5" wheels with about a +25mm offset for around $200 each. . .


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2004 Saturn Ion Redline w/LSD
  • GO - GMPP Stage II, K&N Typhoon, Exedy Hyper Single Clutch + Flywheel Kit
  • VELCRO - Eibach Pro-kit, Progress Rear Anti-Sway Bar, Coppertop_01's subframe brace, PowerGridInc sway-bar end links, Azenis RT-615s (215/40/17)
  • SLOW- Hawks HPS pads, Powerslot slotted rotors
  • SHOW- blacked out, RKSport 3pc Spoiler
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 12:35 PM
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You can - just not in a 5x110, LOL.

Thats funny you called Raceline, Scott - I called them about a week or so before you did asking the same thing. I told him they'd be hearing from a lot of Ion/Cobalt owners in the near future, thanks for making my prediction reality! ALso - the math works even better at a 275/35/17 or 285/35/17 if anyone makes such a thing - those two sizes will mount on a 9" wide rim and are within a millimeter or two of our stock rolling diameter. I'm not going to DSP, probably SMF - either way, I wants rubber down. Also talking to a company in Canada about custom fender flares so I can run those tires with coilovers and not rub the fenders on the tire tread in high speed sweepers and slaloms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaJaguar5
I try and get with as many dudes as possible when I'm out on the road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by h4ckler
I miss the days when people weren't emo and just hung themselves instead of bitching on youtube....
RIP "Sally" - Pacific Blue 2005 Ion Redline Comp Pack

14.8 @ 96 mph, 2.3 second 60' - 100% stock on stock tires, 85 degrees out at 2200 ft altitude...

207 whp, 187 wtq, 100% stock uncorrected numbers on a mustang dyno...
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-02-2008, 06:21 AM Thread Starter
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Wheels? Tires?

Yes, you're absolutely correct that there aren't any really wide tires that are an exaxt fit, so I've been working from what's available from Hoosier, BFG, etc. The bigger problem, as you know, is wheel sizes.

I've found several, lower cost wheels from tirerack that are 17" x 8", pricing from ~$140-$250, wheels weighing ~21-23 lbs, and the Rial Nogoro, for $170 each, @22 lbs, states that it has a 5 mm offset (with a 5.78" backspacing). The offset/backspacing is the best I've seen. This isn't great, but it's a lot better than the 35-42 mm offset (5.9"-6.2" backspacing) on most of the wheels -- and the 255/40 x 17 BFG R1s specify a wheel width range of 8.5-10.0 inches. Which would mean that the wheel would be within 0.5" of the minimin recommended width spec. Remember, I'm only concerned with wheels and tires to race with. I run 7" rims with 215/45 street tires. And I have a set of 7.5" rims for Hoosier Wets. I've seen the BFGs in 255, a guy with a trailered STI runs them, and they are visibly as wide (perhaps wider on the ground) than the Hoosier 275s).

I'm also not terribly concerned with the tire diameter so long as it's not more than about an inch larger -- the larger diameter reduces the effective torque and I already have issues spinning the front tires under power coming out of tighter corners (and National Tour sites usually have higher-speed courses). When I ran down in San Diego this year with 225/40s, I hit the rev-limiter three times on each run -- had I been geared a bit higher (a larger tire), I could have been faster, with less tire spin, again, faster).

Autocross isn't so much absolute speed or cornering as it is maintaining the 'quickest' run -- you can be slower, but win.

Scott
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-02-2008, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottherbert View Post
Yes, you're absolutely correct that there aren't any really wide tires that are an exaxt fit, so I've been working from what's available from Hoosier, BFG, etc. The bigger problem, as you know, is wheel sizes.

I've found several, lower cost wheels from tirerack that are 17" x 8", pricing from ~$140-$250, wheels weighing ~21-23 lbs, and the Rial Nogoro, for $170 each, @22 lbs, states that it has a 5 mm offset (with a 5.78" backspacing). The offset/backspacing is the best I've seen. This isn't great, but it's a lot better than the 35-42 mm offset (5.9"-6.2" backspacing) on most of the wheels -- and the 255/40 x 17 BFG R1s specify a wheel width range of 8.5-10.0 inches. Which would mean that the wheel would be within 0.5" of the minimin recommended width spec. Remember, I'm only concerned with wheels and tires to race with. I run 7" rims with 215/45 street tires. And I have a set of 7.5" rims for Hoosier Wets. I've seen the BFGs in 255, a guy with a trailered STI runs them, and they are visibly as wide (perhaps wider on the ground) than the Hoosier 275s).

I'm also not terribly concerned with the tire diameter so long as it's not more than about an inch larger -- the larger diameter reduces the effective torque and I already have issues spinning the front tires under power coming out of tighter corners (and National Tour sites usually have higher-speed courses). When I ran down in San Diego this year with 225/40s, I hit the rev-limiter three times on each run -- had I been geared a bit higher (a larger tire), I could have been faster, with less tire spin, again, faster).

Autocross isn't so much absolute speed or cornering as it is maintaining the 'quickest' run -- you can be slower, but win.

Scott
good point i would advise 245 45 17 Hooosier A6 on 9.5 x 17 27 inch diameter
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-02-2008, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Periodic View Post
subframe brace is wicked....as others have said, I have #2 ever made.

Steering response and feel, is unreal with this bar on.
Which # is mine then?

Ok, so, like, yeah, umm....
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-02-2008, 08:40 AM
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I run Hoosier 245/40/17 on the stock 7" wide wheels when autocrossing. Just had an event this weekend at Nellis AFB in fact - PAX'd 12th of 87 and would've don a helluva lot better if I'd realized my tire pressure guage was broken before my last run, lol. Borrowed someone else's, set the pressures where they shoulda been all day (I'd been scratching my head for hours trying to figure out why no matter how much air I added they were still pushing under) and dropped a full second, lol.

90% of autocross is in 2nd gear for us. You VERY rarely - if ever - have to heel-toe into 1st, even in the tight stuff - we have the torque - even 100% stock like I am - to pull out of a 15 mph pivot cone from 2nd just fine. The 245/40's are within 2mm of stock diameter, will not rub if you can find a 17x7 with a +36mm offset (stock rules allow a .25" difference in offset and 6mm is .4mm short of .25"), they rub slightly near full lock with the stockers at +42mm and no spacers - our studs aren't long enough to run a spacer or I would. With careful throttle modulation I keep wheelspin under control with these tires in 2nd. If you're hitting the limiter in 2nd something's wrong; no national-style course should allow sustained speeds of 64 + mph!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaJaguar5
I try and get with as many dudes as possible when I'm out on the road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by h4ckler
I miss the days when people weren't emo and just hung themselves instead of bitching on youtube....
RIP "Sally" - Pacific Blue 2005 Ion Redline Comp Pack

14.8 @ 96 mph, 2.3 second 60' - 100% stock on stock tires, 85 degrees out at 2200 ft altitude...

207 whp, 187 wtq, 100% stock uncorrected numbers on a mustang dyno...
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-02-2008, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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wheels & Tires

I hit the rev limiter one time on the Saturday, Texas City course at the National Tour event there last year and I hit it a couple times on the Sunday National Tour Event course in San Diego this year -- but that's running Hoosier 225/40s because they're just a tiny bit wider on the ground than the 225/45s -- so my top end was about 59-61 mph.

I've also hit it a couple of times running at the old Denver Internatinal Airport parking lot course with Hoosier 225/45s. And yes, I do lots of power modulation, but it's just so darned frustrating to go as fast as you can but still not be able to beat that other car (that Acura ITR or the BMW 325 IS).

245s just aren't enough rubber to compete successfully in DSP or SM. I'm in DSP now and the two BMWs I normally shoot for around here only finished about 7th and 10th/11th this year at the nationals. (The DS guy I 'used' to compete against finished 1st in ProSolo DS at the Nationals and about 4th/5th in DS. Like I've said, I've got a better chance to compete against the DSPs than I did against the DS cars.)

BTW, where did someone find 9.5" wide 17s with a 5x110 bolt pattern? I'd almost kill for a set of 9.5s.

It's good to see that there are some people out there who are actually trying to win. Ah well, as they say, there's always next year...

A friend of mine is a porsche road-racer, he drives an older 911 turbo Carrera, and he describes my move to DSP as the 'slippery slope'. He says that's what he started doing a few years ago with his street 911 -- and now he trailors his posrche from Road Atlanta to Laguna Seca -- and everywhere in between -- and he spends thousands just for each race (prep, tires, engines, etc.). And the worst part! He slammed it broadside into a wall earlier this year in practice, and totaled it. He had 'fender-benders' before but nothing really serious over all the years of racing.

At the time, he said that he was going to stop racing (it was his first race with a Hans device and it probably saved his life).

Now, about 6 months later, he's bought a new Audi to drive to work and he's modifying his current 'street' 911 with the parts off the trashed one... Since he's still a driving instructor, he says it's just so he has something to instruct with and besides, he has to remain current with his competition license -- but he grins real hard when he says it -- the 'slippery slope'...

Scott
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-02-2008, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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top speeds

Before I forget, SCCA says that a SOLO II course should be configured so that typical 'unprepared' car (a stock class car) should not be able to exceed the State-wide speed limit -- that's 75 mph here in Colorado. And the same car shouldn't be able to exceed 45 mph in any corner.

There are plenty of 'prepared' cars -- SP, SM, the Mods, etc. -- that will routinely exceed 75 mph in a legal autocross course.

Like you said, our car is definitely a 2nd gear vehicle. I don't bother with down-shifting at any point on a course because, as they point out in the SCCA driving schools, a shift costs you about 1 second each way -- down and up -- that's 2 seconds, as much as hitting a cone... So unless you can really do something dramatic with a down-shift, it's usually best to avoid it.

Besides, if we were driving a -powered car like an older Miata a down-shift might make sense, but with as much torque as we have, it usually doesn't...
Just my 2 cents worth.

Scott
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