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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Font Suspension Question

I understand that the 'belly pan' on the Ion Redline is the same as the 'belly pan' on the Cobalt SS -- if so, can anyone tell me if the distance and mounting points for the front A-arms are the same on both vehicles (I'm hoping to find a GM mechanic somewhere).

The reason I ask is because there's a company in Canada making a "sub-frame bar" to connect the front A-arms together for the Cobalt SS - see the enclosed from their website -- remember, this is for a Cobalt SS:

Twin Sub Frame Bar
$129.99
The bar is bolted to the frame where the stock A-arm bolts purtrude. Supplied are 4 high strength bolts that replace the stock A-arm bolts, they are longer, go through the frame and into the bar, and also four nylock nuts that hold the bar in place. NO modifications are needed to mount this part. Made with 1/4" thick steel mounting plates, and 1" wide schedule 40 piping for the bars. Fits 2.0, 2.2, 2.4 Manual Cobalts 2005 - 2007.

The attachment is a picture of the item. I've read reports on the Cobalt SS website that states that it definitely doesn't work with the automatics...

I'm thinking, if this fits the Redline, it might make another interesting suspension control tool. Please advise.

Thanks,
Scott
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 07:10 PM
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It was originally designed on a Redline by a member on this forum [that doesn't visit much].. or one just like it anyways [not sure if it's the same].

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 07:13 PM
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Yep, that's coppertop's subframe brace it fits
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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Front Suspension Sub-Frame Brace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watts-Up
Yep, that's coppertop's subframe brace it fits
Hm-m-m-m. So, in your opinion, and I suspect that you have more time 'under-the-car' than any of us, what they're offering will fit the Redline?

I followed the links for the coppertop's subframe brace discussions on the Web...

If you think that the subframe mounting points are the same, then I guess I can get on the web and buy one and see.

Thanks much for the input!
Scott
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 06:36 PM
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Coppertop developed it on his Redline, so yes it will fit.

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks much to everybody for the brainpower and thoughts!

I plan to get one in the near future.

By the way, I've been exchanging emails with the people at http://www.racelinewheels.com/ -- and today they tell me that they can build me a custom wheel that measures 17" x 10" with a 12mm positive offset for $448.00 each. While this isn't cheap, it's the first serious width 5x110, 17" wheels I've found and the prices isn't really terrible. Other custom wheels, if they even make anything in 5x110 have all been more than $600 each.

By the way, with 17x10 wheels, you can easily run Hoosier 275/40s (25.4" diameter/ 9-11" rim/ 10.3" on the ground) or 295/35s (25.3" diameter/ 9.5-11" rim/ 10.8" on the ground), a quick reminder the strock 215/45 has a 24.6" diameter. Which means that a Saturn Ion Redline can be VERY competitive in DSP or even SM...

The biggest problem with the Redline in DSP or SM is that we simply can't get enough tire on the ground to be competitive. An recent SCCA article made the point that if you weren't running 275s in DSP you couldn't be competitive -- somewhat true.

Just thought I'd pass it along.

Scott
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 07:23 PM
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Have you measured to see if you can fit 275's? I know people when lowered have problems with 245 or 255's [can't remember which]. That is a lot thicker than stock and our wheel wells are not exactly large.

And only a +12mm offset? Aren't stock like a +40mm offset? I seriously doubt those will fit.

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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 07:58 PM
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I have coppertop's last subframe brace that he made in his garage before selling them thru rebel. lemme say...it's pimp!! besides endlinks....its made the most difference in the feel of the front suspension. my car does not lean at all....no bump steer.....and it rides just a lil rougher than stock. besides the aformentioned endlinks and subframe bar...i have progress springs, JS front strut bar, and a bwoody race rear bar. the subframe brace is worth the 130 bucks IMO....i felt the difference pulling it out of my car port right after installing it.


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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeroState
Have you measured to see if you can fit 275's? I know people when lowered have problems with 245 or 255's [can't remember which]. That is a lot thicker than stock and our wheel wells are not exactly large.

And only a +12mm offset? Aren't stock like a +40mm offset? I seriously doubt those will fit.
They'll fit just fine. That's why there's only a 12mm positive offset (yes, theer is a +40mm positive offset for stock tires/wheels).

a 12mm offset, in this case with 10" wide rims, works-out to about a 5.375" of backspacing -- which means there'll be about 1/2" of room between the inside of the tire and the outside of the strut. I don't care about tires rubbing at lock because you never get to lock in an autocross.

The outside doesn't matter and my springs only drop 1.2" up front -- which still leaves about 1.5-1.75" of clearance above the tire -- given the added stiffness of the springs, the decreased roll-rate because of being 1.2" lower, the added rear swaybar, the subframe conectors, I expect to run only about 1.5 degrees of negative front and rear -- and it will smoke. Think roller skate, but with really big sticky rubber.

Don't confuse any of this with any street setup. I use stock wheels and tires on the street (although this car is mostly garaged except when I go out to race) -- this setup is strickly for SCCA DSP autocrossng.

Scott
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaHater
I have coppertop's last subframe brace that he made in his garage before selling them thru rebel. lemme say...it's pimp!! besides endlinks....its made the most difference in the feel of the front suspension. my car does not lean at all....no bump steer.....and it rides just a lil rougher than stock. besides the aformentioned endlinks and subframe bar...i have progress springs, JS front strut bar, and a bwoody race rear bar. the subframe brace is worth the 130 bucks IMO....i felt the difference pulling it out of my car port right after installing it.
Sounds perfect! I too have Progress springs, a progress rear swaybar, an SPS from strut bar, Koni adjustables, and the URaceCars Sub-frame connectors.

If I can every find a set of adjustable camber/caster plates (like the Gound Control plates) I can mount to the top of our struts, I'll get them too. I'm sure I can have one of the local race shops fab me something, but I really hate to spend a thousand or more just for that single mod.

Thanks much for the news. Is sounds like we're setup very much alike. Thanks again,

Scott
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