Urban's Friendly Tire Guide - Saturn ION RedLine Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-04-2006, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
urbanmonkeygod04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Surfside Beach, SC
Posts: 1,868
Urban's Friendly Tire Guide

I figure, since my best friend & his dad are in the tire business and a lot of their information has rubbed off on me, I'd create a nice thread to let everybody know exactly what you're getting yourself into when buying new tires.

The first thing you're obviously going to need to look at is the tire sizing. This isn't very difficult, but some people overlook bits & pieces, and some people just don't know what the numbers mean. So let's start with the stock tire size for a Redline; 215-45-ZR-17 (the numbers after that are load ratings, treadwear, traction, and temperature. We'll get to those in a bit.)

Here's the breakdown:

215 - The width of the tire, in millimeters.
45 - The "profile" of the tire. This measurement is actually a percentage of the width; i.e., with a 215-45-17, the sidewall will be as tall as 45% of 215, or 96.75 mm of rubber.
17 - The rim diameter that the tire will fit.

To determine how tall your stock wheel & tire package is, all you've got to do is take your width, multiply it by the width by the profile, which with the 215-45-17 we have been talking about is 96.75 mm. That means that on either side of the wheel there is going to be 48.4 mm of rubber, or 1.88". Then, you will take your wheel diameter (17"), and multiply it by 25.4, ending up with 431.8 cm. Add the two up, and you have your total rolling diameter, which ends up at 528.55 mm, or 20.6 inches.

The conversions used are as follows:

Inches to Millimeters: 25.4
Millimeters to Inches: .039

So, now, let's say that you want to step up in width to a 225-mm or even a 235-mm tire, and are trying to figure out if you will maintain about the same rolling diameter. We'll go with 3 tire sizes, a 225-45-17, a 225-40-17, and a 235-40-17. You come up with the following TOTAL diameters (sidewall+wheel diameter), and the percentage off of the stock size.

Width, Total Diameter, Sidewall Width, MM +/- from stock, +/- % size
225-45-17 - 538.05 mm, 101.25 mm, +4.5 mm, +1.79%
225-40-17 - 521.80 mm, 90 mm, -6.75 mm, -1.29%
235-40-17 - 525.80 mm, 94 mm, -2.75 mm, -0.50%

So as you can see, there are many variations, and you're honestly going to have a VERY hard time stepping up in diameter and getting the perfect match. Within 3% of the stock diameter is not going to create a problem. If you go up in size, your speedometer is going to that much over or under your actual speed. For example, if we were to go with the 225-45-17's, our speedo would read -1.79%, or at 100 mph, our speedo would tell us we're going 98 mph or so. So as you can see, it's not a massive difference.

Another thing to take into account before choosing a tire is aesthetically, how it's going to look. Adding 10 mm of rubber on the same size wheel is going to mean that the tire is not going to have to stretch as much as to fit on the wheel. Subtracting that 10 mm is goin to mean that you'll have to stretch the rubber moreso to fit over the wheel. Therefore, going up to a 225-45-17, it will not only look that extra 4.5 mm taller, but it will also be slightly more rounded at the edges.

What other things can you expect with increasing or decreasing tire size? There will be a difference in handling, which may be noticeable. When I put 205-50-17's on the front of my car, it definitely felt more "pillowy" in all aspects; acceleration, handling, and braking. A taller tire is going to change the gearing of your car, but only by that percentage of height you added or subtracted.

Something to consider if buying all-season or snow tires is, what kind of winters does your area have? If it is frequently very icy, you may want to step up in width, as a wider tire will distribute weight more easily over ice. If there is a lot of snow accumulation, going to a thinner tire may be the answer as you will get a "plow" effect with a wider tire, as instead of cutting through the snow, it just builds up underneath & around it.

Now for the other numbers on a tire. Aside from your dimensions, there are also traction, temperature, and treadwear ratings, as well as load & speed indexes. The descriptions for these are as follows, and should be heeded as a guide, not an absolute fact, as manufacturers may give their own tires different measurements; a 200-treadwear Nitto may wear much faster than a 200-treadwear Michelin.
Traction: This denotes the amount of traction you can expect out of this tire. An AA rated tire would deliver much more traction than a B rated tire.
Temperature: The temperature rating denotes whether these tires can function well at higher operating temperatures. For example, you wouldn't want to use a snow tire with a very low temperature rating in the summer, as it could disintigrate and cause a whole world of problems. A tire with an AA temperature rating will not fare well in the winter, as it is designed to operate at a higher temperature than it will ever manage to get to in the dead of winter.
Treadwear: The treadwear is a rough estimate of how rapidly the tires will wear. For example, if you bought a set of super-sticky gumball DOT-legal competition tires like a Michelin Pilot Sport Cup with a treadwear rating of 140, expect them to last about 5000 regular miles, or maybe 10 track days. On the other hand, a set of Cooper tires designed for economy with a rating of 340 could easily go for 50,000 gentle miles before replacement.
Load Index: This number tells you how much weight you can safely load on THAT TIRE without any risk. For example, a load index of 89 will support 1279 pounds. You obviously wouldn't want to use that tire on an Excursion, where there could easily have 3000+ pounds placed on it in a cornering maneuver.
You may also notice that some cars, mostly higher performance, have different load indexes for the front & back. For example, a new Z06 with Eagle F1 Supercars has a 98 load index on the front and a 101 on the back. This is because not only does the load change dramatically during acceleration, braking, and handling, and the weight bias is different front & rear, it also has to accomodate for downforce. A Ferrari Enzo that generates 1750 pounds of downforce also has to accomodate for that 1750 pounds of load in the tires.
Speed Index: This is a guideline for how fast you can safely sustain a speed on that tire before it risks disintigration. For example, a Z-rated tire you'd find on a performance car allows for travel at 189+ miles per hour, but an H-rated tire is only rated up to 130 miles per hour. If you never expect to travel any faster than 70 miles per hour, you really don't have to be concerned, but for the performance enthusiasts here, we should be aware of what our tires are capable of.

That's all I've got for right now. I may add more later regarding the tire's compound, tread pattern, and other information. I'm tired at the moment though.

If you're asking yourself why I wrote this, it's to help everybody here out. Your tires are the only thing that connect your vehicle to the road. Making the best, most informed decision can be the difference between life and death.

Happy tire buying.

Red Redline club member #002
:: 42.5#ers :: 3.0" SFPH :: B&G Drop :: K&N Drop In :: Copper Core Plugs :: Tibbett/Photo Antenna Mod :: Tuned by NoRemorse ::
From the Great White North to the Durty South. I'm in Myrtle Beach now
urbanmonkeygod04 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-05-2006, 09:23 AM
Senior Member
 
davytudope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ft riley ks
Posts: 377
the tire rack has a bunch of great info on this topic.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tiretech.jsp
some info from there, the traction grade for the tire is almost allways A or AA, and is only for straight wet traction. not cornering or dry grip.
the treadwear gread is a percentage. it is based off of a standard 100. i have no idea what the standard is, but a 200 rating should last twice as long as a 100. a 300, 3 times as long. our dunlop sp sport 9000 are a 280.
and for tire sizeing, the numbers on the sidewall are not exact. all 215's are not the same width, not even from the same brand. most companys list the section width and tread width for each tire. but that is not exact either. the section width is measured on a tire that has no load on it. the tread width has no standard for how to measure a tread block that has a curved edge. that is left up to the manufactuer.
and for tire hight, rotations per mile is the usual rating for that. the smaller the number the bigger the tire. but that is also left up to the manufacteur to determine how to do.
davytudope is offline  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-24-2007, 08:17 AM
Member
 
ionjentzsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanmonkeygod04
I figure, since my best friend & his dad are in the tire business and a lot of their information has rubbed off on me, I'd create a nice thread to let everybody know exactly what you're getting yourself into when buying new tires.

The first thing you're obviously going to need to look at is the tire sizing. This isn't very difficult, but some people overlook bits & pieces, and some people just don't know what the numbers mean. So let's start with the stock tire size for a Redline; 215-45-ZR-17 (the numbers after that are load ratings, treadwear, traction, and temperature. We'll get to those in a bit.)

Here's the breakdown:

215 - The width of the tire, in millimeters.
45 - The "profile" of the tire. This measurement is actually a percentage of the width; i.e., with a 215-45-17, the sidewall will be as tall as 45% of 215, or 96.75 mm of rubber.
17 - The rim diameter that the tire will fit.

To determine how tall your stock wheel & tire package is, all you've got to do is take your width, multiply it by the width by the profile, which with the 215-45-17 we have been talking about is 96.75 mm. That means that on either side of the wheel there is going to be 48.4 mm of rubber, or 1.88". Then, you will take your wheel diameter (17"), and multiply it by 25.4, ending up with 431.8 cm. Add the two up, and you have your total rolling diameter, which ends up at 528.55 mm, or 20.6 inches.

The conversions used are as follows:

Inches to Millimeters: 25.4
Millimeters to Inches: .039

So, now, let's say that you want to step up in width to a 225-mm or even a 235-mm tire, and are trying to figure out if you will maintain about the same rolling diameter. We'll go with 3 tire sizes, a 225-45-17, a 225-40-17, and a 235-40-17. You come up with the following TOTAL diameters (sidewall+wheel diameter), and the percentage off of the stock size.

Width, Total Diameter, Sidewall Width, MM +/- from stock, +/- % size
225-45-17 - 538.05 mm, 101.25 mm, +4.5 mm, +1.79%
225-40-17 - 521.80 mm, 90 mm, -6.75 mm, -1.29%
235-40-17 - 525.80 mm, 94 mm, -2.75 mm, -0.50%

So as you can see, there are many variations, and you're honestly going to have a VERY hard time stepping up in diameter and getting the perfect match. Within 3% of the stock diameter is not going to create a problem. If you go up in size, your speedometer is going to that much over or under your actual speed. For example, if we were to go with the 225-45-17's, our speedo would read -1.79%, or at 100 mph, our speedo would tell us we're going 98 mph or so. So as you can see, it's not a massive difference.

Another thing to take into account before choosing a tire is aesthetically, how it's going to look. Adding 10 mm of rubber on the same size wheel is going to mean that the tire is not going to have to stretch as much as to fit on the wheel. Subtracting that 10 mm is goin to mean that you'll have to stretch the rubber moreso to fit over the wheel. Therefore, going up to a 225-45-17, it will not only look that extra 4.5 mm taller, but it will also be slightly more rounded at the edges.

What other things can you expect with increasing or decreasing tire size? There will be a difference in handling, which may be noticeable. When I put 205-50-17's on the front of my car, it definitely felt more "pillowy" in all aspects; acceleration, handling, and braking. A taller tire is going to change the gearing of your car, but only by that percentage of height you added or subtracted.

Something to consider if buying all-season or snow tires is, what kind of winters does your area have? If it is frequently very icy, you may want to step up in width, as a wider tire will distribute weight more easily over ice. If there is a lot of snow accumulation, going to a thinner tire may be the answer as you will get a "plow" effect with a wider tire, as instead of cutting through the snow, it just builds up underneath & around it.

Now for the other numbers on a tire. Aside from your dimensions, there are also traction, temperature, and treadwear ratings, as well as load & speed indexes. The descriptions for these are as follows, and should be heeded as a guide, not an absolute fact, as manufacturers may give their own tires different measurements; a 200-treadwear Nitto may wear much faster than a 200-treadwear Michelin.
Traction: This denotes the amount of traction you can expect out of this tire. An AA rated tire would deliver much more traction than a B rated tire.
Temperature: The temperature rating denotes whether these tires can function well at higher operating temperatures. For example, you wouldn't want to use a snow tire with a very low temperature rating in the summer, as it could disintigrate and cause a whole world of problems. A tire with an AA temperature rating will not fare well in the winter, as it is designed to operate at a higher temperature than it will ever manage to get to in the dead of winter.
Treadwear: The treadwear is a rough estimate of how rapidly the tires will wear. For example, if you bought a set of super-sticky gumball DOT-legal competition tires like a Michelin Pilot Sport Cup with a treadwear rating of 140, expect them to last about 5000 regular miles, or maybe 10 track days. On the other hand, a set of Cooper tires designed for economy with a rating of 340 could easily go for 50,000 gentle miles before replacement.
Load Index: This number tells you how much weight you can safely load on THAT TIRE without any risk. For example, a load index of 89 will support 1279 pounds. You obviously wouldn't want to use that tire on an Excursion, where there could easily have 3000+ pounds placed on it in a cornering maneuver.
You may also notice that some cars, mostly higher performance, have different load indexes for the front & back. For example, a new Z06 with Eagle F1 Supercars has a 98 load index on the front and a 101 on the back. This is because not only does the load change dramatically during acceleration, braking, and handling, and the weight bias is different front & rear, it also has to accomodate for downforce. A Ferrari Enzo that generates 1750 pounds of downforce also has to accomodate for that 1750 pounds of load in the tires.
Speed Index: This is a guideline for how fast you can safely sustain a speed on that tire before it risks disintigration. For example, a Z-rated tire you'd find on a performance car allows for travel at 189+ miles per hour, but an H-rated tire is only rated up to 130 miles per hour. If you never expect to travel any faster than 70 miles per hour, you really don't have to be concerned, but for the performance enthusiasts here, we should be aware of what our tires are capable of.

That's all I've got for right now. I may add more later regarding the tire's compound, tread pattern, and other information. I'm tired at the moment though.

If you're asking yourself why I wrote this, it's to help everybody here out. Your tires are the only thing that connect your vehicle to the road. Making the best, most informed decision can be the difference between life and death.

Happy tire buying.

^ +1

The traction rating is not the amount of traction you will see in the sense you use it. The traction rating is the tiers ability to grip in a wet test, braking hard in a straight line.

-Trevor-


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
turbo kit w/SMT-6 (Installed)

Mods and pics:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ionjentzsch is offline  
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-13-2007, 02:53 PM
Senior Member
 
scarlett_trocar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Howard County, Maryland
Posts: 2,243
Hm...Thanks for the info. Now that I know that information, I will do this:

bring in a photo of the tire I want and tell you I want that.

You can do the work! =)
scarlett_trocar is offline  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 05:24 AM
Senior Member
 
54yroldkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 150
Arrow

This is great info but there is one point left out. All Tire companys when building the tires do not follow the same ratio this is within a .5' across the tire or .25 on either side. this would be for tire width across the tread. Ther is a differance. It is like they use fuzzy math kinda like fuzzy logic for the computer for A/T..
54yroldkid is offline  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-22-2008, 09:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Vegas, baby!
Posts: 1,550
One correction: The sidewall height counts across th edimeter, not the radius. In other words, is not divided by 2 (for each "side" of the wheel) - it's multiplied by 2, accounting for "each" sidewall. This height includes the bead & whatnot, which is why it doesn't look like your sidewall is that tall. Thus, the 96.75mm is counted twice, top & bottom as it were. The overall diameter for a 215/45/17 is therefore 24.6 inches, not 20.6. Wheel diameters are measured to account for the bead, which is why your rolling diameter doesn't have to account for overlap.

EDIT: This also means that the difference counts twice when altering size. A 235/40/17 is -2.75mm all the way around, which means "top" and "bottom" when measuring diameter, so -5.5 total mm - about 1%, not .5%. Still pretty insignificant, but twice what you were giving it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaJaguar5
I try and get with as many dudes as possible when I'm out on the road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by h4ckler
I miss the days when people weren't emo and just hung themselves instead of bitching on youtube....
RIP "Sally" - Pacific Blue 2005 Ion Redline Comp Pack

14.8 @ 96 mph, 2.3 second 60' - 100% stock on stock tires, 85 degrees out at 2200 ft altitude...

207 whp, 187 wtq, 100% stock uncorrected numbers on a mustang dyno...

Last edited by BigBrother; 04-22-2008 at 09:42 PM.
BigBrother is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-22-2008, 10:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Dead EyeZ24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bossier City, Lousyana
Posts: 371
I always wanted to know this stuff, but been way to lazy to figure it out. Thanks for the post!!
Dead EyeZ24 is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 10:00 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 1
Oh yeah.Thanks for information

"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
javedjee77 is offline  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-19-2018, 01:03 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: DUBAI
Posts: 11
Nice Post.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
rentalcarsuae2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Saturn ION RedLine Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Friendly Challenge CSC vs RL Autox! fflores Autocross / Road Racing Discussion 81 04-30-2006 05:44 PM
kid friendly super_charged ION Redline Discussion 11 03-22-2006 01:10 PM
recomeded tire pressure? (screw in tire) cvenom2122 Problems & Troubleshooting 9 01-29-2006 01:39 AM
zzperformance poly motor mount installation guide my_bd ION Redline Discussion 0 01-14-2006 06:31 PM
2005 Indy Auto Show pictures NOT 56K friendly Tibbett ION Picture/Media Post 21 01-07-2006 01:09 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome