500HP TVS Redline Build Thread! - Saturn ION RedLine Forums
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post #1 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-12-2018, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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500HP TVS Redline Build Thread!

Hey everyone, I have most of the parts for my over the winter build and the rest planned out. So I figured I'd make a thread for anyone interested in the build or looking for help while doing something similar!

So far everything done to the car (that isn't getting replaced) include GMPP clutch, K&N intake, ZZP long tube header/Magnaflow res and catback, ZZP stage 3 with the S3 H/E and dual pass and ZZP control arms.

I'm in the process of retrofitting headlights and have LED tail lights, new ZZP cross drilled/slotted rotors, Hawk HPS pads, B&M short throw shifter, GMPP pedals, LS4 TB, 80#'s, lowering springs and a hydraulic hood conversion to put in.

I have a TVS1320 with AEM meth injection and a low-mile LSJ with 10:1 diamond pistons, cams, retainer springs and a lot of head work done to it to drop in. After all that it's meth failsafe, wideband and interceptor gauges, axles, rims, radials and some detailing and wrap!

The goal is to have all this done and running properly by May 25th, then start playing with some nos to get closer to the 500 number throughout the year.. I'll keep the thread updated with pics and quick guides as she gets closer to race ready!
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post #2 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-12-2018, 11:12 PM
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*looks at boost knob, imagines turning it clockwise*

Still gotcha beat.

You're gonna need more than 80's. Even with meth, those start getting sketchy around the 400 mark. Think ID1000's. I also doubt the GMPP will hold 500, much less the F35.

Keep in mind that the supercharger is a parasitic drag, so you'll have to make a good bit beyond the mark you're shooting for.

Keep us posted.

2004 Saturn Ion Redline - S256ET | Ported Head
500whp/464wtq @ 28psi on E85

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post #3 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-13-2018, 01:09 AM
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Interested to see results.
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post #4 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-13-2018, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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You think more than 80's?

I also forgot to mention motor/trans mounts, but that's en assumption with this kind of power. I'd like to set all this up and see how close I am to 375, then eventually throw a 125 shot at it on the track to set a bomb time before she goes boom haha

It's more or less the same thing with the clutch, I don't plan on the GMPP holding 500 off the line but I should be okay with it until July-August when I actually get the nos in, there will be some solid reserve money for engine work, broken axles and other problems along the way.

Also for anyone wondering, I totalled out everything done to the car (a bit of it was bought used like the blower) and when it's done it will total up to about $19,500.
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post #5 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-13-2018, 10:43 PM
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Look at it this way:

You're asking the engine to put 400 to the wheels on blower alone. That is going to require one of 2 things, psi or rpm. Once you pulley down into big boy territory with the TVS, meth ain't gonna cut it. All it takes is a tiny hiccup in the meth line and *KABOOM* I'd suggest full on E85.

Some back of the envelope calculations get us this:

400whp at 15% driveline loss = 470 crank hp + 60 hp minimum blower loss. That's 530 crank hp the engine has to make BEFORE nitrous. That's a lot of fuel. Roughly 53 lb/min of airflow. For comparision, my little turbo car flows roughly 49-50 lb/min at 23psi.

Now, on to the fueling. I know from previous research that fueling becomes a problem with TVS cars above the 350-ish mark. For safety's sake, you want at least 80% duty cycle out of your injectors.

ID1000's are 95# injectors.

Punching some numbers into Injector Dynamics handy dandy fuel calculator gets us this: Fuel Flow Calculator - Injector Dynamics

7200 rpm limiter, 24 psi ( low estimate, probably more like 26/27 )

E0 fuel with stock FPS ( 58 psi ) = no result, out of range

E0 fuel with BRFPS at 58 psi = ID1000's at roughly 52% IDC

E0 fuel with BRFPS at 42 psi = ID1000's at roughly 60% IDC

E85 fuel with BRFPS at 58 psi = ID1000's at roughly 80% IDC

E85 fuel with BRFPS at 42 psi = ID1000's at roughly 90% IDC

FWIW, this calculator is pretty accurate. Putting in my numbers at 23 psi of boost, 42 psi of fuel pressure with a BRFPS, and E30 fuel gets about 65% IDC. I have logged 64% IDC on WOT pulls with that setup. Putting in my numbers for full 85 puts me at about 80% IDC. Time to up the fuel psi I suppose...

ETA: If you're gonna run a wet shot of juice, you'll need a serious fuel pump and possibly line upgrade. A dry shot would need all that plus even bigger injectors.

Please do not neglect your fueling.

Last edited by Rebel Redline; 02-13-2018 at 10:47 PM.
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post #6 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Redline View Post
Look at it this way:

You're asking the engine to put 400 to the wheels on blower alone. That is going to require one of 2 things, psi or rpm. Once you pulley down into big boy territory with the TVS, meth ain't gonna cut it. All it takes is a tiny hiccup in the meth line and *KABOOM* I'd suggest full on E85.

Some back of the envelope calculations get us this:

400whp at 15% driveline loss = 470 crank hp + 60 hp minimum blower loss. That's 530 crank hp the engine has to make BEFORE nitrous. That's a lot of fuel. Roughly 53 lb/min of airflow. For comparision, my little turbo car flows roughly 49-50 lb/min at 23psi.

Now, on to the fueling. I know from previous research that fueling becomes a problem with TVS cars above the 350-ish mark. For safety's sake, you want at least 80% duty cycle out of your injectors.

ID1000's are 95# injectors.

Punching some numbers into Injector Dynamics handy dandy fuel calculator gets us this: Fuel Flow Calculator - Injector Dynamics

7200 rpm limiter, 24 psi ( low estimate, probably more like 26/27 )

E0 fuel with stock FPS ( 58 psi ) = no result, out of range

E0 fuel with BRFPS at 58 psi = ID1000's at roughly 52% IDC

E0 fuel with BRFPS at 42 psi = ID1000's at roughly 60% IDC

E85 fuel with BRFPS at 58 psi = ID1000's at roughly 80% IDC

E85 fuel with BRFPS at 42 psi = ID1000's at roughly 90% IDC

FWIW, this calculator is pretty accurate. Putting in my numbers at 23 psi of boost, 42 psi of fuel pressure with a BRFPS, and E30 fuel gets about 65% IDC. I have logged 64% IDC on WOT pulls with that setup. Putting in my numbers for full 85 puts me at about 80% IDC. Time to up the fuel psi I suppose...

ETA: If you're gonna run a wet shot of juice, you'll need a serious fuel pump and possibly line upgrade. A dry shot would need all that plus even bigger injectors.

Please do not neglect your fueling.
Sadly there's no E85 in Canada, it'll be filled/tuned with race gas for the track and a more conservative 93oct. street tune. I forgot to mention I already have the fuel pump done, but I was also going to run the 80's up until I hook up nos then switch up to the 1000's, think that's fine?
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post #7 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 12:57 PM
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You won't make your power goals on blower alone. On straight 93 and meth, you'll likely safely be in the range of 330-340 wheel. Even with a failsafe meth system ( no such thing in my mind personally ) I wouldn't get overly aggressive on blower. Too many "moving parts" so to speak.

Race gas ( I'd recommend GT260, since the stoich point is the same as gas ), you could probably bump that over 350.

I wouldn't run more than a 100 shot on top of the TVS. You have to pull timing to run nitrous, and if you run too little timing, that can cause issues as well.

The problem comes down to heat of the air charge, allowable timing, and fueling.

There's a reason why all the big power LSJ's are turbo. Turbos are much more efficient when it comes to cramming large amounts of air down the engine's throat at a reasonable charge temp.

Whatever you do, monitor IDC's and try not to ever operate over 80% for more than a split second.

Edit: Here's a guy who made 400, read his parts list.

https://www.redlineforums.com/forums/...lsj-2-0-a.html

Last edited by Rebel Redline; 02-14-2018 at 01:01 PM.
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post #8 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 04Redliner View Post



Also for anyone wondering, I totalled out everything done to the car (a bit of it was bought used like the blower) and when it's done it will total up to about $19,500.

That's a good point - rarely do we see what kind of cash input on mod IRLs ...

Last edited by 1Redline; 02-14-2018 at 04:12 PM.
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post #9 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-15-2018, 03:31 PM
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Just go turbo. The supercharger just isnít ment to go that high. Turbo will give you so much more for the cost.
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post #10 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-15-2018, 06:02 PM
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go for the super charger - If that is your thing


I still like the SC over turbo for this car - and if I had the means I would get the TVS

Last edited by 1Redline; 02-15-2018 at 06:14 PM.
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