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Superd00d
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For you guys that have your sensor expertise, is there a good air-fuel ratio gauge out there, or should I just spend money elsewhere? I do like the look of gauges, gauges everywhere, but they have to be useful at the same time. I'm an information junkie. So if there is one out there that is good, reasonably accurate, and worth the money, I'd love some opinions.
 

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If you really want to spend money on air/fuel monitoring, I would save up and go with a wide band set up. There getting more affordable and are 100x more accurate than a narrow band gauge. Plus I don't have extreeme confidance in the stock O2 sensor. Below are some comparision diagrams of nb and wb from PLX's site.



There are a few companies that sell them, here are a few;

http://www.plxdevices.com/
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php
http://www.aempower.com/product_ems.asp
http://www.alamomotorsports.com/fjo_wideband.html

The PLX M-300 seems to be the best deal out there at just over $320 and it has a narrow band simmulator signal so you can just put the WBO2 sensor in place of the stocker and wire the NB simulator signal right into the computer. See their diagram below.


The only draw back is it cannot data log. Obviously the more options they have the higher the price goes.

If you are serious about tunning this is a must have. The narrow band gauges just can't tell you what is really going on in comparision to the wide band.

Just a suggestion, but again if you are looking into mods and tunning in the future this is a great investment!
 

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I agree. I only have an A/F gauge in my car for very general monitoring and looks.

WB O2s are getting much cheaper. In fact I saw some in jegs that were only a little over $350. If you plan on doing anything serious with the car, its the only way to go. And if you want the gauge rather than the traditional WB read out, AEM has that 2 1/16" WB A/F gauge.
 

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Superd00d
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I was looking through Summit and Jegs a little bit, not all of them seemed to describe them as 'wide band'. Maybe they did, not quite positive, is there a good way to know what kind I'm dealing with? Or can price be my guide for 90% of the choice?

I'm an info junkie personally, I'm the guy that wants the tach in an automatic. Mainly because I like to catch the mistakes I've made working on my engine before it blows up because of it.

Thanks for the help guys, MotorMouth, your explanations are always above and beyond the call of duty!
 

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Sp00ner said:
I was looking through Summit and Jegs a little bit, not all of them seemed to describe them as 'wide band'. Maybe they did, not quite positive, is there a good way to know what kind I'm dealing with? Or can price be my guide for 90% of the choice?
If it's under $300 or so it's most likely not wide band. (or is and is of low quality) The above mentioned comapnies are probably the best to buy from and you can buy directly from all as well.

I'm an info junkie personally, I'm the guy that wants the tach in an automatic. Mainly because I like to catch the mistakes I've made working on my engine before it blows up because of it.
Me too :D

Thanks for the help guys, MotorMouth, your explanations are always above and beyond the call of duty!
Hey, I aim to please, and as they say in the toilet buisness "You aim too please" ;)
 

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if ur looking for the a/f GAUGE, then the halmeter a/f ratio gauge is the ONLY way to go.....if ur looking for an o2 sensor, thats not exactly my area.


halmeter > autometer or anything else like that by a longshot as far as accuracy goes......it has alot more leds to be more specific in its readings.
 

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Go wideband or nothing. An a/f guage hooked up to you o2 sensor is nothing more than pretty dancing lights.
 

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Superd00d
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Is it possible to replace our o2 sensor with one of the above listed companies? I was noticing that they have new o2 sensors with adapters for the cars computer. I guess because they are different qualities or something? Is that hard to do? Or is it just as easy as it would seem? Remove the old one, splice/solder in the new one, and away I go? Since the kits all come with one I figure that would be the easiest way to go, and I noticed MM's concern with the quality of the stock o2 sensor.
 

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Sp00ner said:
Is it possible to replace our o2 sensor with one of the above listed companies? I was noticing that they have new o2 sensors with adapters for the cars computer. I guess because they are different qualities or something? Is that hard to do? Or is it just as easy as it would seem? Remove the old one, splice/solder in the new one, and away I go? Since the kits all come with one I figure that would be the easiest way to go, and I noticed MM's concern with the quality of the stock o2 sensor.
The PLX offers a narrow band simmulation out put and dose offer the ability to completly remove the stock O2 and replace it with the WBO2 sensor as seen in the diagram in the second post. The only thing the ECM uses the NBO2 sensor for is to monitor part throttle opperation to help create the cleanest emitions through modulation of fuel trim. This is why when you see a A/F gauge at part throttle or idle it moves back and forth. When you go over 3/4 and to gull throttle it comes out of closed and goes to open and the ECM ignores the O2 sensor, only working of fuel and ignition maps. You can, with some electrical knowladge, wire this set up in the car with little problems. You can't wouever just replace the NB with a WB, the signal voltage is totaly different from WB (0 to 5 volts) to NB (0 to 1 volt). Let me know if that made sense.
 

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Superd00d
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
MotorMouth said:
The PLX offers a narrow band simmulation out put and dose offer the ability to completly remove the stock O2 and replace it with the WBO2 sensor as seen in the diagram in the second post. The only thing the ECM uses the NBO2 sensor for is to monitor part throttle opperation to help create the cleanest emitions through modulation of fuel trim. This is why when you see a A/F gauge at part throttle or idle it moves back and forth. You can, with some electrical knowladge, wire this set up in the car with little problems. You can't wouever just replace the NB with a WB, the signal voltage is totaly different from WB (0 to 5 volts) to NB (0 to 1 volt). Let me know if that made sense.
Right, you need that adapter to convert the signal voltage to something that the computer can make sense out of. So would that give the car any help during WOT conditions or just under part throttle? I just think that if I'm going to need to install the new o2 sensor anyway, I ought just yank out the old one and drop it in to there. All it can do is help right?

The PLX one is the one I was thinking about as well. They also had some nicer models with the gauge/displays that were pretty cool, looks wise. $$$ wise though....

Is it really as easy as cutting the old one out, removing it from the exhaust tract, and strapping the new one in? I have a bit of electrical experience, mainly electronic circuits and such, just haven't used it in a few years. Here I thought all that stuff I learned in my Assembler classes would be useless. I have a couple of cheaper meters for checking circuits, even a little mulit-meter. Would I need anything else? I think I'm making it a little harder than it is in my own head.
 

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Sp00ner said:
Right, you need that adapter to convert the signal voltage to something that the computer can make sense out of. So would that give the car any help during WOT conditions or just under part throttle? I just think that if I'm going to need to install the new o2 sensor anyway, I ought just yank out the old one and drop it in to there. All it can do is help right?
The PLX creates basicly a fake signal that fools the ECM at part throttle, at WOT the ECM dose not use the O2's signal for opperation.Yes, you replace the old sensor with the new WBO2. It just threads right into the old sensor bung in the exhaust.

The PLX one is the one I was thinking about as well. They also had some nicer models with the gauge/displays that were pretty cool, looks wise. $$$ wise though....
PLX has been, from what I have heard from others, the most reliable and most user friendly of the bunch. I have one sitting in my garage but have not had anytime to put it in yet.

Is it really as easy as cutting the old one out, removing it from the exhaust tract, and strapping the new one in? I have a bit of electrical experience, mainly electronic circuits and such, just haven't used it in a few years. Here I thought all that stuff I learned in my Assembler classes would be useless. I have a couple of cheaper meters for checking circuits, even a little mulit-meter. Would I need anything else? I think I'm making it a little harder than it is in my own head.
You should not have to cut anything. Just some basic soldering and wiring knowladge is all you need. PLX's customer service, again from what I have heard, is very good. I haven't had to use them my self yet.

You can take a look at THIS PDF for more info on installation.

Take a look at their whole site, lots of good stuff there!
 

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we have a factory wbo2 in the car, how nice it is, i know nothing of, so an adapter should not be needed
 

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Superd00d
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
There is a wide band sensor in there? You know this for sure?
 

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Vita said:
we have a factory wbo2 in the car, how nice it is, i know nothing of, so an adapter should not be needed
Umm, no....

It's narrow band. Measured it my self. 0 to 1 volt range with closed loop variations from .118 to .967 millivolts. Use the purple wire on the 4 point weather pac connector on the driver side back of the motor.

Besides, if it was wide band, all of the people here would have non functional A/F meters because they will not accept more than 1 volt. It will fry them.
 
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