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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hello all,
I have a 04 RL that I bought in November it has 10,000 miles on it. I have been having issues with the service vehicle light comming on. I have taken it to Saturn 3 times now for the same issue and they keep telling me that it is a missfire in cyl. 1. I was on my way home from work today and guess what the light came on again. So this will be the 4th time I am going to take the car in to get it checked out.
They told me not to put anything lower then 93 octane. which I have not do so and the light still comes on.
I put Shell 93 in the car, I would like to know if anyone has had this happen.
This started to happen around 8,000 miles.
would like to know your thoughts on this..
 

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have you changed your sparkplugs? if u have did you try to regap or were they the correct gapping. wonder if it could the be the coil pack. i had the same prob on my 96 eclipse and i just put a new coil pack on there and it ran damn good. have them test that it should be under warranty if it is that ............... other than that yell out for ***.
 

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Superd00d
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Does the car do anything that makes you notice it, or it's just on all of a sudden?

What is a technical misfire? When the plug dosen't fire, or when the explosion occurs at a random time?

Also, are you aware that alot of these things had the intercooler wired wrong, resulting in no flow through the heat exchanger? Make sure that's fixed if your's is affected. If it hasn't been, that might take care of your issue. It's summer, and that air temp would be hot as hell after pushing boost for a short time even...
 

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Sp00ner said:
It's summer, and that air temp would be hot as hell after pushing boost for a short time even...

Wow I'm quoting a super-mod :p Surprisingly enough, I had my Redline since May of 04 which means I drove mine for all of the TX summer with the intercooler wires plugged in wrong, which if its not going to detonate in a TX summer then I don't see it detonating in most any other summer. About the one thing I HAVE noticed is that last summer during a 300 mile trip, I noticed a 30 MPG average. I haven't had anything close to that this year. :confused:
 

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LEMON LAW, LEMON LAW, LEMON LAW. Check and see what your state law is and casually drop that in your next conversation with them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Sp00ner said:
Does the car do anything that makes you notice it, or it's just on all of a sudden?

What is a technical misfire? When the plug dosen't fire, or when the explosion occurs at a random time?

Also, are you aware that alot of these things had the intercooler wired wrong, resulting in no flow through the heat exchanger? Make sure that's fixed if your's is affected. If it hasn't been, that might take care of your issue. It's summer, and that air temp would be hot as hell after pushing boost for a short time even...
This just happened all of a sudden, I have said something about the miss wired to them and they told me that they have not see any miss wire. they just told me to bring it in and they will look at it.
I don't know if it has anything to do with the AC and/or when the tank is less then Half. It seems to happen when I let it get below a half tank of fuel and when I have the AC on when it is below half a tank of fuel.
the last time that I took it to Saturn they had the car for 5 days and all they told me was that they could not find anything wrong with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
jeepin79 said:
LEMON LAW, LEMON LAW, LEMON LAW. Check and see what your state law is and casually drop that in your next conversation with them.
I did check into the LEMON LAW here in NC.
not sure what it all means, I have never had to look into this but this is the website that I found
http://autopedia.com/html/LemonLaw/NC_lemonlaw2.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
pclear9061 said:
have you changed your sparkplugs? if u have did you try to regap or were they the correct gapping. wonder if it could the be the coil pack. i had the same prob on my 96 eclipse and i just put a new coil pack on there and it ran damn good. have them test that it should be under warranty if it is that ............... other than that yell out for ***.
I have not changed anything on the car but the oil.
I can't believe that they are telling me that it is the gas. when they told me this I siad to them " then if it is the gas then why would it just start to happen at 8,000 miles." they did not have a straight answer for me. I can't believe that I am getting all this trouble and not having them fix the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
yrethguad said:
All they did was tell you what the symptom was, and not fix the problem? Sounds like a doctor. Write a prescription for the symptoms, and not fix the f%#&ing problem!!!
that's what it is sounding like... I wish they would fix the problem...
 

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Sorry guys but its not always that easy. I had a very nice customer that had to leave his car about 5 times for 4 to 7 days at a time before we finally found his problem. Not bad tech, just super hard to find. We test drove almost 300 miles on one visit just trying to get the concern to show.
 

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WopOnTour said:
Exactly what DTCs are setting??
WOT
Do you know what codes are setting Rangster?? *** is the man for that!
 

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John said:
Sorry guys but its not always that easy. I had a very nice customer that had to leave his car about 5 times for 4 to 7 days at a time before we finally found his problem. Not bad tech, just super hard to find. We test drove almost 300 miles on one visit just trying to get the concern to show.
Don't mean to attempt to hijack this thread...but if the dealership was trying to find a problem by driving it this much on a leased car, would those miles technically count in the end if you were to go over the miles limit? That wouldn't seem to fair to me if they do count...
 

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50 bucks says that they will. cuz their ******* like that. :)
 

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rangster said:
I think the code is P0300
P0300 is a "generic" DTC for a misfire. A misfire can be caused by ANYTHING that results in either incomplete, weak, or non-existent combustion. This typically has nothing to do with detonation. (although damage due to detonation can certainly result in a misfire)

The ECM monitors the crankshaft position sensor and observes for normal accelerations and decelerations of the crankshaft that are normally present when the engine is running. If a serious misfire is present it detects an imbalance in the crankshaft velocity, and can determine WHICH cylinder is misfiring,(cylinder 1?) as it knows the crankshaft position at the time of the misfire. This then should also set a P0301 indicating cylinder 1 misfire. (P0302,303, and 304 are for the rest of the cylinders) When the misfire is present the ECM will FLASH the Malfunction Indicator Light (Check Engine), and then keeps it ON after that.

Your misfire is almost certainly intermittent, if they are having so much trouble isolating it. But as others have said- it aint easy. This is because of the myriad of possible causes that have to be eliminated. Yes bad fuel is one possibility, but IMO that would affect ALL cylinders, so if there were other misfire DTCs set (i.e. P0302,303,304) it would very much make sense to look at fuel. Some fuels in certain states have added oxygenates that cause valve deposits that cause them to stick, and create a misfire. I have even seen this sticking valve problem cause a NO START!

But if the DTC is for ONE cylinder, then the items that must be checked are:
-compression/leak-down on that cylinder
-spark plug
-spark plug boot & coil spring
-coil (swap with another)
-coil control circuitry
-injector and injector control circuitry
-other "mechanicals" that could be affecting cylinder velocity or combustion(piston, pin, rod, bearing, lobe/lifter) etc

Barring that they then need to consider looking for possible faults in the misfire detection system that might be incorrectly detecting the misfire. (Especially if you dont FEEL the misfire- when the MIL flashes or comes ON.)

These would include:
-incorrect camshaft position sensor timing
-faulty crankshaft position sensor or wiring
-faulty camshaft position sensor or wiring
-issues or damage to the crankshaft reluctor
-and finally ECM

So what actually gets done depends on what misfire DTCs are actually present, and the ability to recreate the misfire, so as to direct the direction in the diagnosis. If they cant actually get it to misfire, it turns into a guessing game, focused on many of the items I have mentioned above. This type of diagnosis can take a LOT of time and patience and cooperation on your part.

Once they have the DTC though, there's really not a great need to put a lot of miles on the car though. They don't need to CONFIRM there's a misfire- the repeated presence of the DTC proves that there IS a misfire being detected (be it falsely or otherwise). So they should be recruiting YOU into the process, by replacing a component, clearing the DTCs and then let you take the car- ready to provide instant feedback if the MIL flashes or comes back ON. Then try something else, rinse and repeat. Unfortunately intermittent misfires (or DTCs) can be some of the most difficult problems to isolate on a modern vehicle.

HTH
Regards
WopOnTour
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
thanks for the info. ***.
I have switched gas and run 93 octan and the light still comes on.
They tell me at the dealership that the missfire code is on cylinder 1 but the last time that I took the car in the missfire code was on all 4 cylinders.
they reprogramed the computer and the next day the light come on. I did not drive the car for a few days. On my way to work today the light came on.

the 4th time the light came on, the engine light came on and stayed on. this was not the same as before when the service vehicle light would flash.
the day after the computer was reprogramed the service vichile light came on then agian today.

This would be my 5th time taking the car in to get it checked out. I don't mind the techs trying to fix the problem. Just that everytime I have to take the car in it cost me money to rent a car and the dealership is out of my way and I have to leave work early to get there before they close.
 
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