Saturn ION RedLine Forums banner

1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,574 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Who's getting them? Who has them? How much are they and what is the difference between the 3 street and strip, 1 blower and 1 turbo grind models???

I tried to call Comp Cams but the line was busy. When it finally did ring, I got put on hold for like 20 minutes and then my cell phone dropped the call. :mad: And you guessed it, I can't get through again.

Can anyone answer these ?????'s for me?

Thanks
 

·
Superd00d
Joined
·
22,040 Posts
I'm waiting for a price response.

The blower grind is the one you're going to want, of course!

The other ones are for the 2.2, I think, and the turbo one is for either engine with a turbo. I'm assuming.

You're pretty excited huh? ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
679 Posts
300$$/ not worth it until more boost. Or SAFC II will help but thats now 600$$ together. lean or rich it out and then use a lil bit of No2 and youll be in mid 13's and thats up to 1,300$$ its alot of money. Id wait, thats just me tho.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,574 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Hell yes I'm excited. I love how our aftermarket seems to growing so damn quickly!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,243 Posts
I was posting the info when my 'puter locked up....

JPK said:
Who's getting them? Who has them? How much are they and what is the difference between the 3 street and strip, 1 blower and 1 turbo grind models???

I tried to call Comp Cams but the line was busy. When it finally did ring, I got put on hold for like 20 minutes and then my cell phone dropped the call. :mad: And you guessed it, I can't get through again.

Can anyone answer these ?????'s for me?

Thanks
I was in the process of starting a thread when my computer froze, so Here ya go with the info.

the street & strip grinds are for a regular non-supercharged ECOtec engine. I did not ask about the turbo app because I am not interested in going in that direction. the blower cam (supercharger) specs are as follows:

Intake.................Exhaust

.210º ````````````.218º (@ .050") Duration
.423" ````````````.436" (@ .050") Lift
112º`````````````114º (@ .050") Lobe Centers

THe part # for the set is 113250 (113251 & 252 for the individual cams) and the price is $479.63. They DO NOT have any in stock, it seems that they sold all of them already. Not to fear, the Cam-tech said that they had plenty of blanks and if an order was placed, they would grind a set ASAP.

Now, I'm off to schedule an appointment to get the recall fix and ECU reflash so I won't have any warranty problems when I install the cams and K&N Intake.
 

·
Superd00d
Joined
·
22,040 Posts
Colin said:
300$$/ not worth it until more boost. Or SAFC II will help but thats now 600$$ together. lean or rich it out and then use a lil bit of No2 and youll be in mid 13's and thats up to 1,300$$ its alot of money. Id wait, thats just me tho.
How do you figure it's not worth it? It dosen't even change the A/F ratios as far as I can tell. It's mainly opening and closing the valves faster, allowing them to remain open longer, thereby increasing the rate of cylinder filling and exhaust purging.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,243 Posts
Sp00ner said:
How do you figure it's not worth it? It dosen't even change the A/F ratios as far as I can tell. It's mainly opening and closing the valves faster, allowing them to remain open longer, thereby increasing the rate of cylinder filling and exhaust purging.
Sp00n,
These cams will help A LOT! The tech said he thought the factory duration was around .192 or something. He did not have any specs for the factory lift @ .050, but said these cams were a vast improvement over stock. The factory ECU will do just fine, but a bigger exhaust is recommended. The engine is an air pump, so longer duration and higher life will allow more volume of air to move thru = higher performance. To say these cams won't be a difference over stock is not knowing camshafts and how they affect an engine's performance.

My current plans are to have these installed by the end of May.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
681 Posts
OK, but are they for the 2.2 or 2.0, and what are the differences between the engines? If you buy these blindly, and they're for a forced induction (aftermarket) 2.2 engine, you've just spent some pretty strong money for something cool to keep on your coffee table as a conversation piece.
 

·
Superd00d
Joined
·
22,040 Posts
Jim Lewis said:
OK, but are they for the 2.2 or 2.0, and what are the differences between the engines? If you buy these blindly, and they're for a forced induction (aftermarket) 2.2 engine, you've just spent some pretty strong money for something cool to keep on your coffee table as a conversation piece.
They are offering 5 cams in the line.

3 for the 2.2 N/A Ecotecs.

1 for a turbo Ecotec (not sure of size for this one, if there is a size)

1 for a supercharged Ecotec 2.0

Check out their site... it's under new products...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,243 Posts
Sp00ner said:
They are offering 5 cams in the line.

3 for the 2.2 N/A Ecotecs.

1 for a turbo Ecotec (not sure of size for this one, if there is a size)

1 for a supercharged Ecotec 2.0

Check out their site... it's under new products...
Jim Lewis said:
OK, but are they for the 2.2 or 2.0, and what are the differences between the engines? If you buy these blindly, and they're for a forced induction (aftermarket) 2.2 engine, you've just spent some pretty strong money for something cool to keep on your coffee table as a conversation piece.
I will type slowly for the visually impaired.

Sheesh, why do people want to try and make this hard. I talked to the CompCams Tech, I asked questions. I have built engines before. There is one cam that will benefit our engine and I listed that part #. ... part # 113250 for the 2 cam set. The cam will work in a 2.2 or a 2.0 liter, it is not engine specific, just application specific. You can Buy the Mr Goodwrench add-on supercharger kit for a 2.2L and this cam will work just fine. You can put it in a RL and it will work just fine. The difference, for example, between the S&S cams and the blower cam is lift, duration and lobe centers. Street -strip is .210º-212º, .423-.419" w/110º-112º lobe centers Supercharged cams are .210º-.218º, .423-.436", and 112º-114º lobe centers. All cams will function, blower cam will function best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,243 Posts
Cams and their applications

Sp00ner said:
They are offering 5 cams in the line.

3 for the 2.2 N/A Ecotecs.

1 for a turbo Ecotec (not sure of size for this one, if there is a size)

1 for a supercharged Ecotec 2.0

Check out their site... it's under new products...
3 for the 2.2 N/A Ecotecs. This is a true statement, although these cams will function in our 2.0L SC engine, but just not give the best performance possible.

1 for a turbo Ecotec (not sure of size for this one, if there is a size) Kind of correct. This is a cam that will fit into a 2.2L/2.0L ECOtec and maximize performance in a turbo application. This is not just for a SAAB 2.0T engine.

1 for a supercharged Ecotec 2.0 Close. This is for the curent ECOtecs both 2.2L & 2.0L that have a supercharger sitting on them. This will enhance the performance of the Mr Goodwrench supercharger kit for the 2.2 L Cavalier & Sunfire cars as well as the ION Red Line and Cobalt SS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
681 Posts
Hmm - "I will type slowly for the visually impaired."

Any special reason you need to act like a dick? I appreciate the information, but I, also, build and race cars, and work as a hot rod instructor in the nation's leading technical school - thanks for the info, but if you feel the need to talk down to a 41 year old ASE master tech with 25 years of on track experience, I'll gladly look elsewhere for my info instead of playing into some juvenile bullshit game.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,243 Posts
Jim Lewis said:
Hmm - "I will type slowly for the visually impaired."

Any special reason you need to act like a dick? I appreciate the information, but I, also, build and race cars, and work as a hot rod instructor in the nation's leading technical school - thanks for the info, but if you feel the need to talk down to a 41 year old ASE master tech with 25 years of on track experience, I'll gladly look elsewhere for my info instead of playing into some juvenile bullshit game.
Just as predicted, a list of experience longer than a NY pimp's rap sheet. :rolleyes:

Here's my rap sheet:
Jimmy, I'm 50 and have been racing since '77 and spent time driving and tuning a 500 cube blown alky rat motor in a match race funnycar, and my current personal ride is a '66 NOVA wagon, SBC w/Doug Nash 5 speed, tubbed, caged and full-framed. I Formerly owned an 11 second '67 Camaro and a mid 10 second '67 Camaro, a '55 Chevy that went low 14's on street tires and mufflers(no nitrous back then) & a '56 Chevy Sedan Delivery that looked good, but was show, no-go. Admittedly, I don't work for a nationally renowned technical school, but then what percentage of knowledgeable racers do?


Question. If you're so experienced and informed, why did you ask the question that you did and make the comment about being coffee table conversation pieces?

OK, but are they for the 2.2 or 2.0, and what are the differences between the engines? With your experience, you don't know? To be honest, this question and the following statement is why I posted in the way I did.

If you buy these blindly, and they're for a forced induction (aftermarket) 2.2 engine, you've just spent some pretty strong money for something cool to keep on your coffee table as a conversation piece. Once again, with this statement baffles me from a supposed expert. 1) We as Red Line owners have forced induction engines, so being for a forced induction application definitely applies. 2) 2.0L or 2.2L no application difference, the cams work in both. forced induction 2.2L aftermarket engine? Define the difference between an aftermarked forced induction air pump and a production air pump. The 0.2L difference makes no difference to Mr Camshafts. So, you have a factory supercharged engine and an aftermarket supercharged engine (an animal that doesn't seem to exist, by the way) what could possibly be different between them? ECOtec block, ECOtec head, GM internals, where would there be a difference? .02 L less in volume? Other than possibly making a wee bit less HP due to smaller displacement there is no difference.

12499466 Ecotec 2.0L Supercharged Production Engine
This supercharged 4 cylinder Crate Engine (RPO LSJ) features the following:
DOHC with Sequential Fuel Injection
Bore is 86.00 mm and Stroke 86.00 mm with 9.5:1 compression ratio
205 Horsepower @ 5600 RPM and 200 lb-ft @ 4000 RPM torque
This engine powers the Saturn ION Redline
This production engine includes: exhaust manifold, intake manifold, injectors, fuel rail, balancer, water pump and flywheel

Technical Notes: Pulley, belt, p/s pump, a/c pump, starter, alternator, and engine cover are not included with this engine


Notice that the only available replacement supercharged engine that I've been able to locate is listed as a PRODUCTION engine, not aftermarket. It is the same engine that is nestled in the engine cradle of the Red Line ION.

Do you know why the forced induction engines are 2.0L instead of 2.2L? I see you are offline at the moment, so I will go ahead and answer. Hint: It's not because that's just the way SAAB decided to make it. The stroke is less to decrease the rod angle to reduce the side thrust on the cylinder walls with the increased pressure pushing down on top of the piston. In a regular engine, the rod is pulling down the piston, in the supercharged engine the pressurized air charge is pushing the piston down the bore, increasing stress to the entire reciprocating assembly. The better rod angle reduces the forces on the piston, bore, rod and rod bearings and in a production situation, the less destructive forces going on inside the engine is better for GM and potential warranty issues.

Everyone has a view point and mine is if you you don't want a dick answer, don't ask a dick question and make a dick statement. Sorry if You thought I was being a dick to you, I just couldn't believe you posted what you did in light of the experience you have touted in a bunch of prior posts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,243 Posts
An after thought on the ECOtec engine. 2.2L ECO & 2.0L ECO engines - realistically, design wise, they are the same engine. Forged rods and pistons VS cast rods and Pistons is not a "different engine", same engine - different components. Just like the 327 & 350 SBC, different components yielding different displacements, but realistically, the same engine. It really baffles me when people try to make them different engines, especially people that should know better. They are configured differently for different applications, but as soon as you start messing with them and changing parts, they become the same.

I guess the best way I can express this is by asking this. If I were to take the 2.2L in my sunfire and rebuild it with forged pistons, forged rods that measure 86mm and put the GM Goodwrench 2.2L supercharger kit on it, put the CompCams blower cams in it, how would it be different from my stock redline engine with a set of compcams blower cams in it? Both cars would have a GM ECOtec engine in them that was 2.0L, supercharged with the same cams. Both engines started out differently, but basically wound up the same in the end.

Like GM engineering stated when they came up with using the ECOTEC as a honda killer for sport compact drag racing, This engine(ECOTEC) will be the small block chevy of the new millennia. Just like the Small block was versatile as far as bore and stroke and interchangeability of parts (most specifically heads) The ECOTEC has the same possibilities. And the best part of the ECOTEC design is the fact that it was originally designed to be used as a forced induction engine*, not retro fitted to that application, so putting a blower on it and stuffing it into a SATURN was just like a homecoming.

*fact lifted from a GM press release.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
681 Posts
I asked those general questions because of two reasons - first, I was skimming and didn't read the entire novel that was written, and two, I know most people wouldn't do any research, just nail that "checkout" button on the website (like my two sons have done) without knowing exactly what they were buying. I asked the questions to generate questions from people who may not have our experience - hopefully, keeping someone from buying the wrong part.

Sorry I wasn't more clear with my intentions or questions, but the way I was raised, I have a hard time dealing with being talked down to...

There's obviously only one set of cams from that vendor that would work with our application, and I'll certainly look into it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,231 Posts
See what I started.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,243 Posts
Jim Lewis said:
I asked those general questions because of two reasons - first, I was skimming and didn't read the entire novel that was written, and two, I know most people wouldn't do any research, just nail that "checkout" button on the website (like my two sons have done) without knowing exactly what they were buying. I asked the questions to generate questions from people who may not have our experience - hopefully, keeping someone from buying the wrong part.

Sorry I wasn't more clear with my intentions or questions, but the way I was raised, I have a hard time dealing with being talked down to...

There's obviously only one set of cams from that vendor that would work with our application, and I'll certainly look into it.
Maybe it's just me, but If someone hits the checkout button for $400+ worth of cams (or whatever) and doesn't really know what it is they are buying, the more money than brains rule is in effect and I can't feel sorry for them. BTW, I went back to the top and the posts that were written leading up to your post, weren't even short essays, much less a novel. :rolleyes:

Sorry I wasn't more clear with my intentions or questions, but the way I was raised, I have a hard time dealing with being talked down to... Kind of like what I felt, facts were given in response to JPK's question specifically relating to the Red Line and your post asked a question and stated a fact that totally ignored the information that was posted, I had a hard time with that, hence my reaction. Now, if we're all on the same page, we can order camshafts and whup some NEONS.
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top