[jfelser]

I apologize in advance for the long post, but I think the Redline is going to prove to be Saturn's downfall. The 70s had the Chevy Vega and the 80s had Pontiac's Fiero that nearly brought GM to their knees financially. I am old fart and was alive back then.

Unfortunately, Saturn can't keep up with the problems these cars have developed, especially the 04s! Cam sensors seals, ECU reprograming for cold starting & bucking, poor fuel mileage, inconsistent performance, cars going into limp mode for no apparent reason, ignition switch starting issues, gouged brake rotors causing poor braking, constant squeeks in the doors and rear seats, paint scratches from a poorly designed trunk lid, poorly designed oil filter location (for this application), incurable steering pulling to one side under braking or during normal driving, but I'm sure I've missed a few. All these problems in only 2600 cars. How much longer do we sit here and let Saturn screw with us!

My most recent is overheating of the clutch fluid (apparently shared with the brake resevoir) due to excessive (45 minutes constant) daily stop & go driving during rush hour. I spoke with TAC directly and they told me to avoid this type of driving as our cars have a HD clutch and the cars were not designed for this!?! I can't imagine an SRT4 with this problem. I've been driving stick since '72 (my 240Z) and never had problems like this. No cure available at this time. This is a new car, not some $1K junker!!! I don't know about you all, but I'm ready to bail!

I first saw the RL at the Miami Auto Show in November and went that weekend to get one (along with two 2005 Pontiac Vibes). I traded in two 2002 Z28 Camaros and an 03 S10 Pickup to buy these three cars and was excited about the purchases. The Pontiacs are fine (made by Toyota), but I am very sorry I got the Saturn.

Four trips to the dealer for major brake problems, the last they overcut the rotors and returned the car to me without letting me know. When I had brake failure at 70 mph all they could say was "oops sorry, we'll order new rotors." I spoke with Saturn reps but they keep insisting the problems can be fixed, I just need to be patient. I've also requested an 05 RL to replace this Turkey, but of course they won't even consider it. They said they didn't want to start a precedence.

So far the car I bought on 11/15 has been in for repair for a total of 18 days with no loaner provided. Tonight I began completing the paperwork to file for the Lemon Law with this one. I can't have a new car (3700 miles) that's in the shop 1/3 the time while I still make $400/month payments.

You may have some wise ass comeback to my situation, but don't waste your time showing your immaturity. That way I won't laugh when it happens to you. I would welcome any constructive ideas you might have and especially the idea of jointly approaching Saturn to get their act together and fix our cars!

 

[Chazb]

I feel sorry for your situation and your car might be a lemon but my car has always started and is a blast to drive.I had a new 240 z also but dont you remember all the lawsuits about it rusting out?I traded in my vibe for the redline the base vibe has no power even though I liked the car it had some problems like paint peeling and the power windows failing.I believe saturn will get it straight.I know people who drive the redline as hard as a car can be driven.If I had driven my vibe or other cars as hard as people drive the redline they would be in a junkyard now.I feel sorry for your situation and you dont deserve it.I know a guy who races his redline and once the sensor seal was replaced he has not had a problem and no I am not being a smartass.One other thing griping about the oil filter location is lame.After reading some of your previous post sound like you have a bad dealer who does not know what they are doing.

 

[jfelser]

I appreciate your straightforwardness. I hope I'm the only one with these problems. I doubt it though. And yes, you are correct concerning the dealer. Unfortunatley there aren't a whole lot of options locally. Thanks again.

 

[tlake84]

I apologize in advance for the long post, but I think the Redline is going to prove to be Saturn's downfall. The 70s had the Chevy Vega and the 80s had Pontiac's Fiero that nearly brought GM to their knees financially. I am old fart and was alive back then.

Unfortunately, Saturn can't keep up with the problems these cars have developed, especially the 04s! Cam sensors seals, ECU reprograming for cold starting & bucking, poor fuel mileage, inconsistent performance, cars going into limp mode for no apparent reason, ignition switch starting issues, gouged brake rotors causing poor braking, constant squeeks in the doors and rear seats, paint scratches from a poorly designed trunk lid, poorly designed oil filter location (for this application), incurable steering pulling to one side under braking or during normal driving, but I'm sure I've missed a few. All these problems in only 2600 cars. How much longer do we sit here and let Saturn screw with us!

My most recent is overheating of the clutch fluid (apparently shared with the brake resevoir) due to excessive (45 minutes constant) daily stop & go driving during rush hour. I spoke with TAC directly and they told me to avoid this type of driving as our cars have a HD clutch and the cars were not designed for this!?! I can't imagine an SRT4 with this problem. I've been driving stick since '72 (my 240Z) and never had problems like this. No cure available at this time. This is a new car, not some $1K junker!!! I don't know about you all, but I'm ready to bail!

I first saw the RL at the Miami Auto Show in November and went that weekend to get one (along with two 2005 Pontiac Vibes). I traded in two 2002 Z28 Camaros and an 03 S10 Pickup to buy these three cars and was excited about the purchases. The Pontiacs are fine (made by Toyota), but I am very sorry I got the Saturn.

Four trips to the dealer for major brake problems, the last they overcut the rotors and returned the car to me without letting me know. When I had brake failure at 70 mph all they could say was "oops sorry, we'll order new rotors." I spoke with Saturn reps but they keep insisting the problems can be fixed, I just need to be patient. I've also requested an 05 RL to replace this Turkey, but of course they won't even consider it. They said they didn't want to start a precedence.

So far the car I bought on 11/15 has been in for repair for a total of 18 days with no loaner provided. Tonight I began completing the paperwork to file for the Lemon Law with this one. I can't have a new car (3700 miles) that's in the shop 1/3 the time while I still make $400/month payments.

You may have some wise ass comeback to my situation, but don't waste your time showing your immaturity. That way I won't laugh when it happens to you. I would welcome any constructive ideas you might have and especially the idea of jointly approaching Saturn to get their act together and fix our cars!

Couldn't have said it better! I think your car and mine were built on the same day!

 

[Aeain]

It Sucks guys. But, the squeeks and rattles are traits of saturns. The trunk lid problem I don't have. Bucking/Cold Start/Extended Crank/2nd Gear Hesitation was fixed on mine with the latest ECU Reflash. Camshaft Position Sensor was replaced in August and hasn't leaked yet. I have some slight gouges in my rotors but, my breaking is just as good as I had it new. Limp Mode is when the car is cold. Never had an Ignition problem.

I guess I should give some background. I learned to drive manual on this car and I do drive my car pretty hard. It responds well to it. I have had no major porblems besides the Camshaft Position Sensor. I'm sorry, but, I think the Red Line will be one of GM's most successful cars. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. But, there are a majority of people who have little to none of the problems you have mentioned.

 

[Chazb]

Maybe since the colbalts and RLs are about the same drivetrain maybe there will be better fixes in the future.How about asking saturn to extend the warranty to the RLs to 50,000 miles and four years.

 

[tlake84]

Maybe since the colbalts and RLs are about the same drivetrain maybe there will be better fixes in the future.How about asking saturn to extend the warranty to the RLs to 50,000 miles and four years.

I bought the extended warranty, (4 years) (100,000 miles) so I am taking FULL use of it, getting every squeak, rattle, ECU update, anything I can get!

 

[flaarnsturgen]

I appreciate your straightforwardness. I hope I'm the only one with these problems. I doubt it though. And yes, you are correct concerning the dealer. Unfortunatley there aren't a whole lot of options locally. Thanks again.

I don't think it's just you -- it sounds like most of us have had at least some of these problems. It can get frustrating, but it is the first year of a radically revamped model. I can cut them some slack for that.

I don't have a lot of wise (or even wise-ass) advice to offer you on what you should do to resolve your problems. You have to figure that out yourself based on how bad the problems are and what your comfort level is with the available options. For my part, I'll stick with the RL a while longer -- but thanks for putting the pressure on them to do right by their fans and customers. I think that will help us all in the long run.

f.

 

[redlin-er]

There's quite a few of us with little to no problems. Me, just some trunk scratching and the ECU Upgrade, that's it. Oh yeah, I stomp on it like I hate it! It's fun that way.

Stick with it. I've had worst problems than you guys mention with other cars, my Saturn Service Center pratically kisses my feet every time I come in. They run and open the door, treat me like a CEO, call for the Saturn Shuttle to take me to work, and yeah they look at me in the eye when they talk to me, not to mention the free donuts and coffee .

Good luck.

 

[jfelser]

There's quite a few of us with little to no problems. Me, just some trunk scratching and the ECU Upgrade, that's it. Oh yeah, I stomp on it like I hate it! It's fun that way.

Stick with it. I've had worst problems than you guys mention with other cars, my Saturn Service Center pratically kisses my feet every time I come in. They run and open the door, treat me like a CEO, call for the Saturn Shuttle to take me to work, and yeah they look at me in the eye when they talk to me, not to mention the free donuts and coffee .

Good luck.

Ok Redliner, teach me the ways of the Force!?! Thanks for all the words of encouragement. I truly like my RL, even better than my Z28s, as this car actually turns! I just spend each day driving it wondering what is going to break next. Very un-nerving!

Possibly it's the dealer I chose to do the repairs. While there are alot of Saturn dealerships locally, they pool their service work to a handful of locations. I thought this one would be good since the Service Manager was my coworker's brother. Maybe I'd be better off with a total stranger.

Prior to filing for the Florida Lemon Law, I have asked the Ed Morse Agency to cancel my contract and allow me to buy a different vehicle from them. I have bought 5 new cars from them since July 2002 and hope customer loyalty is important to them. Thanks again to all of you who have encouraged me. I hope your problems are limited and not as severe as mine.

 

[Vita]

i have to say, since i've had the ECU update, my car has stalled 3 times coming off the freeway on the off ramp...

i'll go to down shift, and it dies, shows the battery light, have to pop the clutch to get her goin' again. twice last night. saturn's getting a call today...

not a huge problem, i think it's because it's cold and the airbox is off, but it shouldn't die like that

 

[Sp00ner]

Man, that's too bad about all your hassles! I had starting and stalling issues when I first got the car, had the ECU flashed and the Cam Sensor replaced, not just the seal, and have been TOTALY problem free. I don't have brake gouges, well, nothing more than my mother's Buick, or one of the guy's BMW that I work with. On a side note he told me yesterday that he has had to have his rotors replaced 3 times in 3 months now for warping and gouging. I close my trunk with the most minimal effort and have just the tiniest scuff mark in the middle of the bumper. No mechanical problems that weren't fixed the first time, and the only time it was in the shop.

As far as the downfall of Saturn, no one has been buying them for years, if they don't do something, there would be no Saturn anyway. It was a failed experiment, the public never caught on to the the advantages of a Saturn, I'm a car freak and I love 'em. This is pretty much the end of Saturn as we know it anyway, next year the composite panels are gone, production seems to be shifting to the standard GM plants, etc. So there is no downfall, the downfall happened when everyone decided that any car was better than a Saturn. It's a shame people didn't choose differently, but that's how the dice roll. Someone will be driving my old Saturn and my new Saturn long after the body rusts off a Civic, but people will still rather buy the Civic... what can ya do, people are sheep....



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[gm3saturn]

I know why every one is bitching. When you buy a brand new car, especally one that costs as much as ours, and you expect it to be problem free. My only problem has been the cam sensor issue but with a new car you come to expect a problem free car. For how much I like my car Im very disapointed. I sold a 04 Civic si for my RL and Im starting to regret it. All that said, I still like my RL. Once I even out my payments I do plan on selling.

 

[Sp00ner]

I know why every one is bitching. When you buy a brand new car, especally one that costs as much as ours, and you expect it to be problem free. My only problem has been the cam sensor issue but with a new car you come to expect a problem free car. For how much I like my car Im very disapointed. I sold a 04 Civic si for my RL and Im starting to regret it. All that said, I still like my RL. Once I even out my payments I do plan on selling.

There are issues in Honda's too, I know two people personally and two 'friends-of-a-friend' that have had the timing belt break and ruin the entire top half of the enigne. Of the two I know, one was covered, and one was not covered because he had aftermarket cams. The cost to fix the second one was almost $3,000. The two people I know, one was an Integra and one was a Prelude SH. Talk about pissed, these two people now think that anyone buying a belt driven car, as Hondas are, are morons. Just depends on your experience. At least I never have to worry about my timing belt breaking, I mean really, a rubber belt in an 8,000 rpm car?

How can you be so happy with your car, with one problem, and be dissapointed at the same time? Not to mention that you paid less for you car than anyone else with a similar car, an SRT-4 or Cobalt SS are close, and the SRT's have some issues too. Can you say 'weak transmission'? You didn't exactly buy an expensive, precision machine. I know people want their cars to be perfect, but that's just how it goes. $20,000 is a cheap car, plain and simple. I would have sold my '04 Civic Si for a Redline too, it's cheaper, faster, bigger, handles better, and isn't a Honda. What are you gonna get that compares in a Honda? The RSX-S? You're not gonna drive away with one of those for less than $20,000, that's for sure, not a new one anyway.



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[nduchene]

I would have sold my '04 Civic Si for a Redline too, it's cheaper, faster, bigger, handles better, and isn't a Honda. What are you gonna get that compares in a Honda? The RSX-S? You're not gonna drive away with one of those for less than $20,000, that's for sure, not a new one anyway.

Not to mention that we'll whoop on a stock RSX-S 9 out of 10 times

 

[jfelser]

The dealer made one final stab at fixing the brakes and clutch, it took 8 days! But after the hour long stop & go trip home, the same problems still appear to exist plus they apparently overfilled my intercooler and it is now flowing over. I don't know where they pick these guys up.

Saturn is flying in the field engineers to evaluate the car next week. When you figure on what they spent to still not fix the problem (air flight & hotel for 2 engineers, 2 sets of front rotors, 1 set of brake pads, close to 20 hours of mechanic's time on the clock) it would have been cheaper for them to just take the car in trade on the purchase of a new car, as I originally requested. That way they would still have me as a valued customer (5 new cars in 2 1/2 years = $114K in sales).

Spooner, I never knew the history of Saturn. Sorry for them that America never bought into their plan. I'm not sure what to accept if the Ed Morse Agency does offer me a new vehicle. I enjoy driving the RL when it's working right. But most times it's not!

 

[Sp00ner]

The dealer made one final stab at fixing the brakes and clutch, it took 8 days! But after the hour long stop & go trip home, the same problems still appear to exist plus they apparently overfilled my intercooler and it is now flowing over. I don't know where they pick these guys up.

Saturn is flying in the field engineers to evaluate the car next week. When you figure on what they spent to still not fix the problem (air flight & hotel for 2 engineers, 2 sets of front rotors, 1 set of brake pads, close to 20 hours of mechanic's time on the clock) it would have been cheaper for them to just take the car in trade on the purchase of a new car, as I originally requested. That way they would still have me as a valued customer (5 new cars in 2 1/2 years = $114K in sales).

Spooner, I never knew the history of Saturn. Sorry for them that America never bought into their plan. I'm not sure what to accept if the Ed Morse Agency does offer me a new vehicle. I enjoy driving the RL when it's working right. But most times it's not!

Yea, but they still have to fix your car before they can sell it to someone else, so they still have to fix it regardless. Not just what's easiest for you.

It's a shame about Saturn, they had one of the best reliability ratings in the game, amazing cutomer loyalty, etc. Some reason though, no one bought the cars in big numbers. The very traits that made me buy one, are the traits that other people claim as a deteriment. Plastic panels, low cost, different cars and different sales techniques.

BTW... your problem sure as hell seems like a dragging caliper somewhere. Does it pull while you're driving too? Any brake smell? What about the lines? Have you ran anything over or messed with the brakes at all? There aren't too many things that will overheat your entire brake system. Shit, tell them too replace both rotors, calipers, front brake lines and there should be nothing left to go wrong.



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[jfelser]

Not wanting to be self-consumed, I guess I naively assumed Saturn would eventually spend the funds to correct the problems I'm experiencing. The dealer has cut and replaced the front rotors (and cut the new ones and back ones too), as well as finally changed the front pads. Unfortunately, when cutting the front and rear rotors they have effectivelly eliminated my opportunity to cut them again when they'll need it done around 30K miles.

While the brakes are still a problem, it's the clutch is that I smell burning when I stop driving. They've flushed and bled the clutch line and slave cylinder, but the clutch now actually starts slipping even earlier than before (shortly after warm-up). Additionally, the clutch pedal is even stiffer from the git-go. Trust me, I'm used to a heavy clutch. My 89 Vette was a legful, but this one fells like its an on-off switch. There's no middle ground to engage it slowly, especially from a standstill. The engineer claimed it was a design situation and felt there was no evident cure (other than my finding an alternate route to and from work with less stop & go traffic). Next week with the field engineers should be fun. I'm actually looking forward to the visit. Be sure I'll let you know what they say.

 

[Arcade]

With all that was stated here on this thread, which I agree with totally, I have come to the realization that I am glad my Red Line was totaled in my accident. Now, I don't have to worry about those "problems" anymore. It's almost a relief, in a way.

I loved my car, but it was just too much trouble. I even considered buying another one. I just can't rationalize having to go through it all over again.

Good luck to all.

 

[Smurf]

only problem I've ever had with my Redline was the little storage compartment next to the steering wheel broke when I hit it with my knee.....took it to the dealership and they fixed it right away