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They're not going under, the gov't would bail them out befor that happened. They are heavily reorginizing, possibly even filing chpt 11 to help them re-negotiate contracts and what not. Both buick and pontiac are walking on egg shells. GM's biggest problem is that they have a huge overcapacity problem that they can't shake do to contracts. Thats where chpt 11 would come in allowing them to close down plants and strike a new deal with the UAW. Possibly their next biggest problem is legacy costs from all the retired workers pensions and health benifits. A national health care system would help them out tremendously.
 

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It seem slike to me that a ton of big name companies that employ union workers are being forced to do this. Unions were real strong back in the day, but ove rtime, they will eventually force themselves out of a job becuase new contacts usually mean more $$$ that the company cannot pay. I work in a union shop (even though i am non union office employee), and contract after contract, they are getting more money and more jobs are layed off to keep costs down. It' a downward spiral, and not to make unions sound bad, but i dont think they are as needed now as they were in the early-mid 1900's. union's protect their employees, but at the same time, they are killing themselves and everyone else slowly. I know, we're going through a new contract with our guys now and for the first time, they are going to have to pay their own health benefits. Must be nice cause i know in the 3 years I've worked here, I've already paid close to $3000 toward my health benefits, plus co-pays and prescriptions, and I have barely used it.

Companies just cannot afford unions anymore. I hate to say it, but i've done 2 years of research on it, and it affects everything. prices go up on anything made or moved by a union worked, and it gets to the point where companies will outsource their work to other countries so that they can competitavely price their product, and at the same time, take jobs away from hard working US citizens. We could easily pickup anyone off the street, give them some simple training, and pay them $10-15/hr (half of what our guys are making now), but the union holds us back from saving money and spending it on other things like helping out with health benefits and stuff. Our customers have threatened to purchase from other places that can store and move product much cheaper than we can. Its hard to say, but the country will not be able to go on like this much longer.

Sorry for the rant, but i seem to get like this everytime i see a union shop close or possibly file chapter 11 cause i know the reality is right in front of us, and expecially me since i work in a union shop, not knowing what's going to happen contract after contract. My company has threatened to pickup and move out of the Local Union area. I can;t afford to do that, and most of us underpaid office people can't either(because all the money is going to union workers).
 

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nduchene said:
It seem slike to me that a ton of big name companies that employ union workers are being forced to do this. Unions were real strong back in the day, but ove rtime, they will eventually force themselves out of a job becuase new contacts usually mean more $$$ that the company cannot pay. I work in a union shop (even though i am non union office employee), and contract after contract, they are getting more money and more jobs are layed off to keep costs down. It' a downward spiral, and not to make unions sound bad, but i dont think they are as needed now as they were in the early-mid 1900's. union's protect their employees, but at the same time, they are killing themselves and everyone else slowly. I know, we're going through a new contract with our guys now and for the first time, they are going to have to pay their own health benefits. Must be nice cause i know in the 3 years I've worked here, I've already paid close to $3000 toward my health benefits, plus co-pays and prescriptions, and I have barely used it.

Companies just cannot afford unions anymore. I hate to say it, but i've done 2 years of research on it, and it affects everything. prices go up on anything made or moved by a union worked, and it gets to the point where companies will outsource their work to other countries so that they can competitavely price their product, and at the same time, take jobs away from hard working US citizens. We could easily pickup anyone off the street, give them some simple training, and pay them $10-15/hr (half of what our guys are making now), but the union holds us back from saving money and spending it on other things like helping out with health benefits and stuff. Our customers have threatened to purchase from other places that can store and move product much cheaper than we can. Its hard to say, but the country will not be able to go on like this much longer.

Sorry for the rant, but i seem to get like this everytime i see a union shop close or possibly file chapter 11 cause i know the reality is right in front of us, and expecially me since i work in a union shop, not knowing what's going to happen contract after contract. My company has threatened to pickup and move out of the Local Union area. I can;t afford to do that, and most of us underpaid office people can't either(because all the money is going to union workers).

Without unions you would be making less than you are now.There has to be a happy middle ground I agree too that.Without unions in this country wages would be bad all over for every worker.How much should a auto worker make???? would 4 or 5 dollar a hour make you happy do you think you would get a dime of that money.Have you seen what kind bonus the big wigs get sometimes it is in the millions.If you want a third world country then do away with unions and we will become Mexico.

Unions have to show some restraint but you cannot do away with them.Prices will not go down either ceo's will just line there pockets and remember anyone can be replaced for a person making a cheaper wage.Go to best buy a buy something there products were built by non unions workers who get very cheap wages who work for pennies a day nike is another one pay people pennies a day and how much is there product.
Working people do not need to start a war between each side we have to work together.I am almost retired and I work in a union shop and my company has gotten rich off our labor they are not going too the poor house.It has to be a two way street we both share and do a hard days work.Could you live off Walmarts wages?One more thing jobs are going over seas that have nothing to do with unions.
I needed some info on my home loan and guess what it was someone over seas that could hardly speak english computer jobs are going overseas credit card companies are going over seas OFFICE people jobs are going overseas do you know why cheap labor that is the only reason.It is easy to blame unions but it is much more complex than that it is called greed.I am sorry to vent on you but it is a give and take for everyone.
 

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nduchene said:
It seem slike to me that a ton of big name companies that employ union workers are being forced to do this. Unions were real strong back in the day, but ove rtime, they will eventually force themselves out of a job becuase new contacts usually mean more $$$ that the company cannot pay. I work in a union shop (even though i am non union office employee), and contract after contract, they are getting more money and more jobs are layed off to keep costs down. It' a downward spiral, and not to make unions sound bad, but i dont think they are as needed now as they were in the early-mid 1900's. union's protect their employees, but at the same time, they are killing themselves and everyone else slowly. I know, we're going through a new contract with our guys now and for the first time, they are going to have to pay their own health benefits. Must be nice cause i know in the 3 years I've worked here, I've already paid close to $3000 toward my health benefits, plus co-pays and prescriptions, and I have barely used it.

Companies just cannot afford unions anymore. I hate to say it, but i've done 2 years of research on it, and it affects everything. prices go up on anything made or moved by a union worked, and it gets to the point where companies will outsource their work to other countries so that they can competitavely price their product, and at the same time, take jobs away from hard working US citizens. We could easily pickup anyone off the street, give them some simple training, and pay them $10-15/hr (half of what our guys are making now), but the union holds us back from saving money and spending it on other things like helping out with health benefits and stuff. Our customers have threatened to purchase from other places that can store and move product much cheaper than we can. Its hard to say, but the country will not be able to go on like this much longer.

Sorry for the rant, but i seem to get like this everytime i see a union shop close or possibly file chapter 11 cause i know the reality is right in front of us, and expecially me since i work in a union shop, not knowing what's going to happen contract after contract. My company has threatened to pickup and move out of the Local Union area. I can;t afford to do that, and most of us underpaid office people can't either(because all the money is going to union workers).
Hey, suck me off, if I did not make what I do in my union job, little pukes like you wouldn't get paid what your earn at all!!!!!!!!!

GM is in trouble because some non union executive did a bone head deal that gave 2 billion $$ to Fiat for NOTHING!!!!!! That is a lot of retiree benefits thrown out the window. This only one of many bone head decisions that my company has made over the years. The biggest one is not making cars that the general public wants to buy. When they do (Cobalt SS), it is years behind the competition and overpriced.

I get really sick of people downing unions, especially the UAW big 3. THe plain and hard fact it this: Little non union shops were forced to raise their wages over the years to keep workers so they wouldn't run to the union shops. I left a non union job for my union one and I can tell you first hand that a union work enviornment is a much safer one. I can go on and on about how and why unionism is needed in America's workplaces, but at the moment I do not feel like trying to educate the ignorant.

And one more thing..... if you think for one minute that GM would lower the price of a car if my wages were cut $8 an hour (latest figure this week has GM with 125,000 autoworkers) you sir, are a retard. Greed and a responsibility to pay shareholders will keep the prices where they are at, they would just make more profit and get their asses out of debt. In the long run, you the consumer will still be screwed by them at car buying time. I went over 15 years without NEVER getting a raise while everyone else in America got 3% a year or something like that. If you look back in time from 1980 to 1995 did GM cars keep going up in price? Hell yes they did. THey shouldn't have because the union workers were on a wage increase moritorium, we didn't start getting anual raises until the '96 contract. Even on this contract (2003) the first 2 years are no raises, 2% the 3rd year and 3% the fourth. Add to that I now have to pay co-payments for DR visits, my prescription costs have gone up 300%, Dental lab fees are not covered, and I just got glasses from SEARS - their sale price was better than my GM plan price. Don't cry too hard for GM, they're a bunch of mis-managed bastards. When My gravy train sinks, I'll find another job. Until then...slurp, slurp.
 

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Blu_Redline said:
Hey, suck me off, if I did not make what I do in my union job, little pukes like you wouldn't get paid what your earn at all!!!!!!!!!

GM is in trouble because some non union executive did a bone head deal that gave 2 billion $$ to Fiat for NOTHING!!!!!! That is a lot of retiree benefits thrown out the window. This only one of many bone head decisions that my company has made over the years. The biggest one is not making cars that the general public wants to buy. When they do (Cobalt SS), it is years behind the competition and overpriced.

I get really sick of people downing unions, especially the UAW big 3. THe plain and hard fact it this: Little non union shops were forced to raise their wages over the years to keep workers so they wouldn't run to the union shops. I left a non union job for my union one and I can tell you first hand that a union work enviornment is a much safer one. I can go on and on about how and why unionism is needed in America's workplaces, but at the moment I do not feel like trying to educate the ignorant.
Unions are out of control and putting themselves out of business. Just ask the airline people--they refuse to make any concessions, and then the airlines go under. That's smart. . . ?

Complaining about the executives won't help. Go back to school so you can be one too.
 

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I honestly think that if it really came down to it the government would bail GM out. Just like they did the airlines. If GM went under it would seriously screw up the entire economy. All the people with out jobs. And not just GM employees, all the small shops that support GM products as well. When you really think about it alot of people depend on GM for their income. Right down to the waitresses at the restaraunt in the Ren CEn in down town Detroit. TNo more cars being built means no taxes being collected and no more exports. The entire country would suffer if GM went under as well as the state of Michigan and the City of Detoit and all the surrounding cities.

Besides that, look at what happened with K-mart. If they can rebound, so can GM
 

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shaneathan said:
Unions are out of control and putting themselves out of business. Just ask the airline people--they refuse to make any concessions, and then the airlines go under. That's smart. . . ?

Complaining about the executives won't help. Go back to school so you can be one too.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, you are a bottom feeding lawyer, so you are really qualified to pass judgement. Unions aren't out of control, the regulations that they have to live by are. (read that government) We could fire a lot of useless non working drunks and drug users, but the "oppressed" worker has no problem going "downtown". (code for the black guy going NAACP on whitie) Hey, we got drunk white trash too, but they get saved because the others get saved. Dog chasing the tail. Government regulations mandating us to hire non-qualified people into skilled trades because of affirmative action. So you get 10 people that can do the job and 5 that never will do anything but collect a paycheck. Not the unions fault, but the government and the company for going along with it. THe evil is not the union or what it stands for but the handcullfs that are placed on them by the US government departments that insist on providing free rides for undeserving people. Anyone on this forum that has spent time in a Big 3 factory knows of what I speak and will testify.

And talk of overpaid professions. Gouging someone in the ass for very little work actually done. Huge fees for a lot of work that the office staff does. I just got 3 words... SCUM SUCKING LAWYERS.
 

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shaneathan said:
Unions are out of control and putting themselves out of business. Just ask the airline people--they refuse to make any concessions, and then the airlines go under. That's smart. . . ?

Complaining about the executives won't help. Go back to school so you can be one too.

Wrong airline unions have made lots of concessions.LOL for as schooling goes tell that to the engineering jobs that are going overseas and believe me there are alot others with degrees that are losing there jobs because of lower pay overseas and the tax breaks they are given.I dont know you and you dont know me but if you dont think executives dont make big mistakes then enron is looking for you.
 

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Can't we all just get along????

Blu_Redline said:
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, you are a bottom feeding lawyer, so you are really qualified to pass judgement. Unions aren't out of control, the regulations that they have to live by are. (read that government) We could fire a lot of useless non working drunks and drug users, but the "oppressed" worker has no problem going "downtown". (code for the black guy going NAACP on whitie) Hey, we got drunk white trash too, but they get saved because the others get saved. Dog chasing the tail. Government regulations mandating us to hire non-qualified people into skilled trades because of affirmative action. So you get 10 people that can do the job and 5 that never will do anything but collect a paycheck. Not the unions fault, but the government and the company for going along with it. THe evil is not the union or what it stands for but the handcullfs that are placed on them by the US government departments that insist on providing free rides for undeserving people. Anyone on this forum that has spent time in a Big 3 factory knows of what I speak and will testify.

And talk of overpaid professions. Gouging someone in the ass for very little work actually done. Huge fees for a lot of work that the office staff does. I just got 3 words... SCUM SUCKING LAWYERS.
This whole Union/Non-Union thing is getting out of hand. The union has it's place, I've worked at them. It really comes down to the company. Companies that don't treat their workers fairly need unions to keep them in check. When people are working unpaid overtime and under constant fear for thier jobs, the effects these companies have spills over to the home. This kind of thing can affect generations. The unions play their part too. I can say this coming from a very union family, unions are begining to realize that it's time to change. Some of these unions got so much power that they are able to control entire sectors of the market! Microsoft got attacked by the government for that! With that much power, the unions didn't have to listen to thier membership anymore and were driven by thier own needs. With shrinking memberships (due to company downsizes and changes in the markets) they are forced to take on different rolls. If some innovative enough people get in control it could be a very interesting ride.

As for lawyers, yes, there are some blood-sucking types out there. But, I can say the same for every field of work. I have worked for and with lawyers for 8 years and they serve a very important role in our world. They are highly paid, but you spend a day in their shoes. It also takes years before you are highly paid. As a computer consultant, I make more than many of them! They also have to have highly trained support staff which also costs money.

I know that I will never change the perception of lawyers (besides, it's fun to make fun of them) but before you question someone else's worth, think long and hard about it.


--------------------------------------------

Wow, way too political. My brain hurts!
 

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Chazb said:
Wrong airline unions have made lots of concessions.LOL for as schooling goes tell that to the engineering jobs that are going overseas and believe me there are alot others with degrees that are losing there jobs because of lower pay overseas and the tax breaks they are given.I dont know you and you dont know me but if you dont think executives dont make big mistakes then enron is looking for you.
Please tell me where in any of my posts that I have ever made I said that executives don't make mistakes.
 

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shaneathan said:
Please tell me where in any of my posts that I have ever made I said that executives don't make mistakes.
Something about getting a education and becoming a executive...thats all.Hey this is over I think everyone should work together and it is easter.We also drive the same car so we have something in common,I play golf and dont drink beer but I am still a blue collar worker and that dont make me a piece of crap.I get tired of being stereotyped for what I do as you probably do also.
 
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