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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok guys. I've reversed the wires on my pump, just like everyone else has. My question is to the people who claim they can see a difference in the flow via the filler tube. Several have said the could, others said they couldn't. I happen to be one that could not see any difference. So, I decided to investigate further. I removed the connector, and wired the pump to 12v with the engine off, looked at the filler tube, then reversed the polarity and looked again. Since the engine was not running, I could easily hear the pump run, but I could NOT see any flow difference. So, this is really just a reality check. I don't dispute that it was wired wrong, just couldn't personally see any visable difference. Comments welcome.
Rod
 

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It probably depends on how full the filler tube is. If it's low enough, you will see the flow when wired correctly. But even when it's wired the correct way, the system only moves about 3 gallons per hour. Definitely better than the before which would pump less than 1 gallon per hour.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ok, so the guys the claim to see a definite difference in flow are seeing the difference in 1 gph vs. 3 gph, which is 0.036 oz/sec vs. 0.1 oz/sec. Hardly seems like this would be a visable difference. How did you come up with these flow rate numbers?
 

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Rendog said:
Ok guys. I've reversed the wires on my pump, just like everyone else has. My question is to the people who claim they can see a difference in the flow via the filler tube. Several have said the could, others said they couldn't. I happen to be one that could not see any difference. So, I decided to investigate further. I removed the connector, and wired the pump to 12v with the engine off, looked at the filler tube, then reversed the polarity and looked again. Since the engine was not running, I could easily hear the pump run, but I could NOT see any flow difference. So, this is really just a reality check. I don't dispute that it was wired wrong, just couldn't personally see any visable difference. Comments welcome.
Rod
It's more the DIRECTION of flow through the charge air cooler radiator (aftercooler) affecting it's transfer efficiency in removing heat from the air charge that makes the real difference. My discussions with Field Engineering has indicated that it could result in a 10-15 HP loss under high ambient conditions- (although I have yet to hear of anyone to actually "dyno test" to determine this.) Flow rate might be affected somewhat as of course the design engineer had a specific flow direction in mind, But whether a change in flow rate can be observed visually?... who cares!

JMO
WOT
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
WopOnTour said:
It's more the DIRECTION of flow through the charge air cooler radiator (aftercooler) affecting it's transfer efficiency in removing heat from the air charge that makes the real difference. My discussions with Field Engineering has indicated that it could result in a 10-15 HP loss under high ambient conditions- (although I have yet to hear of anyone to actually "dyno test" to determine this.) Flow rate might be affected somewhat as of course the design engineer had a specific flow direction in mind, But whether a change in flow rate can be observed visually?... who cares!

JMO
WOT
As far as who cares, I agree. I don't really care, it was more a curiousity that some people could apparently observe a definite difference and other (including myself) could see no difference. Noticing a definite flow increase would give a indication that it really was wired incorrectly to begin with. Thanks for you thoughts.
 

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Rendog,
In my case, I did not want to see that my intercooler was wired wrong.... had too much "faith" in Saturn. Prior to checking the wires, I had about 0.5 inch (10-15mm) rise of coolant in the vertical tube... with the engine at idle or brought up to 4K I could only see a slight "rise" of coolant toward one side of the vertical tube. It was very difficult to discern any coolant flow versus fluid "movement" just due to engine vibration.

After reversing the wires, so that (black) positive was to the + connector, and (black & white) wire was connected to the negative connector, I could see a "rush" of coolant flow, plus burbling up the vertical tube.

It sure seems to me to be definite difference.

Also, I just completed an (approx) 290 mile run from Skokie, IL to Southfield, MI, in a little more than 4 hours (albeit it was cool) and I did not see a drop in high end power after I exited the highway. Prior to exchanging the wire position, after making this drive, it seemed the engine would "bog" a bit on hard excelleration on 12 Mile Road.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
jmichna said:
After reversing the wires, so that (black) positive was to the + connector, and (black & white) wire was connected to the negative connector, I could see a "rush" of coolant flow, plus burbling up the vertical tube.
What do you mean by a "rush" of coolant flow, and when did you see this "rush"?
I observed absolutely no difference with regard to the vertical tube. As far as performance goes, I haven't driven my car enough to know if it made any difference. I'm not disputing that it was wired incorrectly, just the observable results.
 

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Just look under my car today, and notice the wiring is inverted to.
Is anybody report that to a dealer and did they correct that? :confused:
 

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Wounder is it something i should do right now right away?
Or i be better to ask to a dealership to look at it?
Doing it is not a prob, but wounder if i reverse that and have prob latter?
:confused:
About your experience ?
 

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The Duke said:
Just look under my car today, and notice the wiring is inverted to.
Is anybody report that to a dealer and did they correct that? :confused:
I reported it to my dealership (even gave them the TSB #) but they didn't fix it because they say my car was not showing any signs of the problem. So I tried to fix it myself instead of taking it to another dealership, well I messed up one of the wires trying to switch them and it cost $135 to fix. SO if you decide to do it yourself just be careful.
 

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I took mine in last week and had the dealer switch the wires. Its better to tell them that it loses power after 30 min or so and you read about somthing on the internet about the intercooler coolant pump that might be the problem. I presented it to my dealer like that and they fixed it right up. In turn your going to be running coolant though your intercooler more effectivly and have cool intake temperature... somebody correct me if im wrong.

And the car has felt a bit better since.
 

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Rendog said:
Ok, so the guys the claim to see a definite difference in flow are seeing the difference in 1 gph vs. 3 gph, which is 0.036 oz/sec vs. 0.1 oz/sec. Hardly seems like this would be a visable difference. How did you come up with these flow rate numbers?
If anyone told you that they calculated the flow rate by observing the overflow tube... they're a savant, or a liar. Here's what I saw...

Two weeks ago I added WatterWetter to the overflow tube. When I had my roommate start the car for me to make sure it wasn't too much, with the intercooler filler neck open, there was no movement of the fluid AT ALL. There was a little bubble that was stuck just below the vertical part of the tube, and it stayed perfectly still. This was before anyone discovered the wiring. I found it pretty strange that the coolant wasn't moving at all, even stuck my finger in to see if I could feel anything. Nope, nothing at all. So I figuered there was a thermostat or something, since it didn't need to be flowing at startup if it was 40 degrees out. Never had a car with an intercooler of any kind before, let alone a new air-to-water one.

Now, after switching the wires, starting the car produces a small 'surge' in the tube, and the surface of the coolant in the vertical part of the tube ripples and 'burbles'. I have a lot of experience with little pumps like this. Not the wiring, but the pumps themselves, and just looking at one will show you what happens when it runs backward. It's stirring the water up, and that's about it.
 

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Rendog said:
What do you mean by a "rush" of coolant flow, and when did you see this "rush"? ....
Even at idle... very noticeable compared to previous.
 

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I just got back from my dealership and had them switch the wires around. The service guy didn't like me telling him that the wiring was wrong from the factory, but I told him that that's what it is, that I know other people's have have been reversed, and that there's a noticeable performance decrease in warmer weather, and that the voltage was measured to be negative going into the positive terminal. After that, he still didn't want to believe me, but I had to give in and tell him that there's as TSB on it, so he looked it up, and sure enough, there it was. So they took my car in and switched it up right. Now there is a definite noticeable increase of flow in the stem of the intercooler filler. Before, the only movement was from the stem being vibrated from the supercharger and engine. Now you can see it swishing and bubbling up, so there is a definite difference. It's not warm enough around here yet to notice a performance increase.
 

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jpapa said:
I just got back from my dealership and had them switch the wires around. The service guy didn't like me telling him that the wiring was wrong from the factory, but I told him that that's what it is, that I know other people's have have been reversed, and that there's a noticeable performance decrease in warmer weather, and that the voltage was measured to be negative going into the positive terminal. After that, he still didn't want to believe me, but I had to give in and tell him that there's as TSB on it, so he looked it up, and sure enough, there it was. So they took my car in and switched it up right. Now there is a definite noticeable increase of flow in the stem of the intercooler filler. Before, the only movement was from the stem being vibrated from the supercharger and engine. Now you can see it swishing and bubbling up, so there is a definite difference. It's not warm enough around here yet to notice a performance increase.

Can you get a TSB # because mine is at the dealership right now and they looked at me like I was a moron when I told them.
 

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In the original thread, there is something posted, check through it...
 

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TSB # 05-06-02-003 ... I know how difficult it is to sort through so many pages of similiar info..thats why I store numbers and info on my computer when I find them.
 

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XeroState said:
TSB # 05-06-02-003 ... I know how difficult it is to sort through so many pages of similiar info..thats why I store numbers and info on my computer when I find them.
Thanks so much. the little bastards didn't fix my pump...
 
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