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Think what Witt is trying to say:
Single direction of flow across the manifold + Decreased flow speed through the laminova cores = Possible different air temperatures between cilinders. (Read: different EGT temperatures.)

I think he has a point with this, but probably this effect is minor to the gains you found with the single pass system. (The LSJ manifold is basically one big open system until the flange ports with most likely lots of turbulence after the cooler cores.)

Difficult to make, but a single pass system with opposite flow streams through the laminova's would be perfect to create an even air temp distribution...
 

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Although, isn't that pretty much what the stock 4-pass design does? I mean hell, by the 3rd pass alone, it's gotta be pretty hot already.

Pretty much, yeah. That's why dual and single pass is much better.
 

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You didn't see my ninja text. D:

But I think the idea of the slower fluid thing is essentially more expansion on what mikey was getting at - if the fluid is flowing too slowly, the coolant will get up to its max heat capacity too early and effectively do nothing past that point.

Note; I don't think that's an issue for you guys - just explaining wtf Witt was getting at. Obviously from the numbers you guys got beyond the proven numbers of the dual pass plate, slowing flow down to single pass is NOT an issue.
Yeah man +1... There are a lot of things going on there. Certianlt is not as easy as quicker moving fluid will exchange more heat OR a larger intercooler will disperse more heat. It's very dynamic system.
 

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Pretty much, yeah. That's why dual and single pass is much better.
hey one more thing.:zlurking: Dont you dare tell people i agree with you all the time :fight:You gotta look at the cores, you know the things you crushed with your channel locks taking them out when you did your dual pass and sit in "o" rings that you prolly dropped on the ground and couldn't find.:) How do you put them in? which way? why? huh? I'm a bitch....:boohoo:
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Think what Witt is trying to say:
Single direction of flow across the manifold + Decreased flow speed through the laminova cores = Possible different air temperatures between cilinders. (Read: different EGT temperatures.)

I think he has a point with this, but probably this effect is minor to the gains you found with the single pass system. (The LSJ manifold is basically one big open system until the flange ports with most likely lots of turbulence after the cooler cores.)

Difficult to make, but a single pass system with opposite flow streams through the laminova's would be perfect to create an even air temp distribution...

ahhh, ok, I'm totally getting it now. He means that as the coolant enters on the one side, the cylinders on that side are getting cooler air than the cylinders on the opposite side that are recieving a tad bit warmer air. Wow, I didn't even think of that.

The good news is, I can fix this very easy. LOL. I can route it so that it enters from the left side on top and the right side on bottom. It's pretty damn easy to do. I just need to take the endplate off and have some weld work done.

Damn, I learn something every min. it seems. :thinkerg:
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Also, I'm willing to bet that the temp from left to right as it makes its single pass is not enough to cause any problems, but, it's still an easy fix if it is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
ok here is an idea, run coolant through left to right on 2 laminova, and right to left on the other 2. makes plumbing it a little more complex, but should solve the charge temp differential between cyl. 1 and 4
LOL, this was just posted. I figured it out already though. But john is going to get EGT's from different cylinders to see what the temps look like from cylinder to cylinder.
 

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LOL, this was just posted. I figured it out already though. But john is going to get EGT's from different cylinders to see what the temps look like from cylinder to cylinder.
there are issues doing that so lets see what data says it will take more than a day to get to it for sure...
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I think being that the intake manifold is OPEN and there are no plenums, that the temperature issue these guys are referring too isn't really going to exist.

But that's my theory. I'll wait for data proof before I'm set on an opinion.
 

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I think being that the intake manifold is OPEN and there are no plenums, that the temperature issue these guys are referring too isn't really going to exist.

But that's my theory. I'll wait for data proof before I'm set on an opinion.
yeah thats the thing, like mikey says the change makes the laminova like one big core, and as some else said its a big big open inlet box with slots....and the slots are really too big and theoretically should be (relatively) larger slots in and smaller slots out to hold the air in to transfer heat to the cores better. all under pressure at a kazillion cubic feet per second and a million whp. MY BRAIN HURTS....:(
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
LOL. I get ya. I'll just wait for EGT data to see if we are melting our cars.

Although, I think we'd be seeing problems by now with as much as we drive them.
 

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basically, I just want someone to explain to me how my EGT's could be at harmful levels when my IAT2's are right around 100 degrees and I have plenty of exhaust work.
Why dont you just ask in the thread its being discussed in, or are you really that afraid of being incorrect?
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I can't log onto css.net cause I'm at work. I can, however, log onto the redline forums. gay security settings. But I've been watching that thread.
 

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I can't log onto css.net cause I'm at work. I can, however, log onto the redline forums. gay security settings. But I've been watching that thread.
Just was wondering why you copy pasted everything I posted in that thread but asked for replies here and never asked me on the forum it was being discussed.

Just to clarify what I am saying. Heat affects air density. When you build a single pass setup the way you are, you are effectively slowing down coolant velocity as pressure is remaining the same but the paths the coolant is flowing is increasing.

When you have a change in heat you have a change in airmass per unit volume. It leads to a different air fuel ratio per cylinder which is exhibited in stock form on the LSJ. A single pass (laminova inputs aligned to the same side) obviously can create a heat differential. With a runnerless intake manifold these things are hard to detect until you get to higher engine speeds which is where individual EGT probes come into play.

Im not trying to tell you its a bad idea, but the correction you said you would make is a direct result of what Im trying to tell you. I tried to tell qwikredline this but his ego got in the way of what I was trying to explain. Im glad you can understand the situation and I hope it betters what you are trying to build.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
I understand completely. While I think that you may be on to something, at the same time, I'm trying to consider what mikey stated a few posts earlier about the laminova's becoming "super efficient" in a "wall-like" manner. I also am thinking along the lines of the stock intake manifold not having runners and since it's an open area that there won't be any significant differences in temps across the cylinders.

Only real way to tell is EGT probes. So I'll patiently await john's data. I'd think that both of us would have been running into problems by now though if something was going wrong.
 

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Not to bust your bubble here Ralli but we have already covered this topic pretty throughly earlier this year. Anyone who followed this thread is well informed of the LSJ Stock AFTERCOOLER system and the benefits of a dual pass and single pass IM.

http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/performance-modifications/32935-has-anyone-considered.html

I think your IM is pretty cool. (Get it?) lol I wish I had one.

I have heard that GM did some testing on one and it was determined that their was not enough gains to warrent a single pass IM over a dual pass.

But I would assume that was based on Stage 2 and Stage 3 power/heat levels. I am sure there are more significant gains to be had with the smaller pullies that most people run.

I would consider the single pass IM an excellent supporting mod. Its not going make a lot of hp all by itself but it will definalty help support higher numbers.
 

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yeah thats the thing, like mikey says the change makes the laminova like one big core, and as some else said its a big big open inlet box with slots....and the slots are really too big and theoretically should be (relatively) larger slots in and smaller slots out to hold the air in to transfer heat to the cores better. all under pressure at a kazillion cubic feet per second and a million whp. MY BRAIN HURTS....:(
Since it is a closed system, the thermodynmic properties of the fluid do not change. No matter how much pressure or how fast you move it. There seems to be this impression if you circilate it faster it will dissipate heat faster. Not true, in fact it is much more about volume than flow. What changed it the ability to ADD HEAT, or TAKE HEAT OUT. Simple as that. In a perfect world, you would be able to dissiapate the heat 100% before sending it back in, but it ain't happenin. In fact, the faster you circulate the coolent, the WORSE off you are because you better have one hell of a way of cooling it quick. Like everything else its a careful balance.
 
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