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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok i bought my redline today. so we have two now. lets hear some feedback on a topic. i work very closely with select manufactures. one of these (at this time i can not say who sorry they dont want the bother while working on this project) i am working with now; we are discussing removing the s/c and constructing a full bolt on turbo kit for the ion r/l and the colbalt ss. this kit would come with front mount all the piping rc injectors external wastegate and bov. a new intake manifold to replace the s/c and turbo exhaust manifold with the downpipe. fuel managment will either be provided via a piggy back or available stand alone (via aem ems). this kit should with the testing done so far be good for a little more than 400whp as long as the engine testing goes okay. we have spoke to a few higher ups at gm's racing devision and they do say the motor should be fine at 400whp. they said our crank is extremely capable and the rods and pistons should be fine also. the only question was regarding the valve springs and going to a dual setup. which if needed would come with the kit via ferrea.
okay heres the real question we are going to try to keep pricing for the whole setup somewhere between 3500-4500$ depending on what ends up being needed. and hope to offer a few trims on the turbo like the srt-4 has. how many here would say they are interested in this upgrade??? i am trying to get enough feedback to have them start asap. they will if they feel there is enough demand for this type of kit. THIS WILL NOT BE A TWINCHARGE SETUP as we feel the restriction of the s/c on the intake side would not allow the gains we hope to achieve. my second r/l will be used in testing and fabrication. so the car is already available and can start soon.
let me know from everyone what you all feel about this type of conversion.
my people will be checking in here to view this thread. so please if you have good feedback and are excited about this please say so. i we can get more than a few people highly intereted they said they will start very soon. i will be posting this on the colbalt forum as well as this kit will fit both cars. if you have any questions please ask i will try to answer them the best i can or i will direct them to the actual turbo comapny and give you thier response. i am all for this myself i hope other will be also!!! thanks
 

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Yea, not interetested in a turbo, or a big swap, this is a daily driver....
 

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naa I like the twin charge idea in the fact instant power and a big ass turbo for the top end. Good for some bad for others I guess. With a twin charge there is no need for a front mount intercooler. And your kit would have to include a intake manifold, a removal of the laminova intercooler, and its pump, and its front mount water cooler, then remap the ECU, then match a cam.
 

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i like the originality of the twin charging and the twin charging seems more practical to me. If i wanted just another turbo charged car i would have gotten an srt-4.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
okay, keep the replies coming. no worries. im sure there will be some that agree and some that disagree with this idea. no problem. i really wanted the big power of the srt but the driveability and comfort of the redline. and please in no offense i just dont like the look of the srt. really because i have never really like the styling of the neon. great car i just would have rather bought the redline. but now i want big power 400+ and still reliable as a daily driver, like the srt. i love the huge burst of power from a turbo. i do like the feel of the sc but i just am a turbo person.
but keep them coming thanks. i will be doing this either way to mine so that is fine. i will be removing the sc today to send out for the intake side.
 

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Twin charging is so much more efficient no offense. Do what you would like but yes I to will be going with Psi-Fi, they have done A LOT of research and devolopment. The twin-charging is a great way to go in my opinion seeing as you will not have the turbo lag and all that other stuff. I still think we are going to be able to push about 400 with the twin charge. However you are correct there may be some people interested in this and more power to you for doing it. I'd really like to see this done but it seems like an EXTREME amount of work
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
nah not really that much work. i can fab the intake and exauhst manifolds here. the only real hard part will be the ic plumbing and the front mount i was experimanting today with a emanage. but i just ordered the aem ems standalone i think im gonna install. this should do anything i want it to.
 

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yeah keep the supercharger and add a big ass turbo. If you think the turbo is too big go one size larger. The supercharger will force it to spool so fast. Leave the super charger at 12 psi max and run the turbo to 23 or so that should throw your ass around pretty good. Need a Torque Brace?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
talking to quite a few companies regarding this.
almost all agree if you want big power the sc will be a restriction, not a help.
these do include people a friend knows at gm racing division, wes at saturn motorsports, friends from sp engineering, forced performance turbo, agp, friend from turbonetics, majestic turbo, hks, greddy, jotec, ny performance factory, kaztech motorsports, imp racing etc.. you get the idea and many others. they all do not agree with the twin charger setup. i understand peoples points here but i would tend to agree with the likes of comapnies like these first, no offense to anyone intended. up to a baseline of about 325 - 350 max gm racing says the twin setup should do oaky without anything really breaking. but all of these agree you will not see the numbers that you can with a full turbo setup like 400-450+, gm racing says the block should be fine as well as the rods, etc with again the exception of the valve springs being somewhat weak. well we will see once we officially start the project. i know quite a few people with rl's and colbalt that would love this kit. even though i will still keep you all updated. thanks for the responses
 

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There are people here who are interested if the gains are worth the trouble, and for the right price. Please keep us all updated...

Tom
 

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I am very interested! I would love to get rid of this godly inneficient roots S/C and get into a nice turbo setup. I even have 4000 saved up because I knew it would only be a matter of time before someone came out with this kit.
 

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clownhair said:
I am very interested! I would love to get rid of this godly inneficient roots S/C and get into a nice turbo setup. I even have 4000 saved up because I knew it would only be a matter of time before someone came out with this kit.

please expain how a positive displacment supercharger is inneficient? Hmm
 

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goofyguy said:
please expain how a positive displacment supercharger is inneficient? Hmm
some info to read, just search google for roots supercharger
The roots type supercharger is based on the very efficient air moving principles of positive displacement, but loses supercharging efficiency for several reasons, and primarily because it doesn't compress the air directly.
High heat from turbulence

The blower delivers more and more air rapidly into the intake manifold, where it compresses from the addition of increasingly more air. The turbulence of uncompressed air entering the compressed environment - with associated backflows - creates heat, the great negative factor of supercharging.

The adiabatic efficiency of a roots type supercharger is only in the 40%-60% range. Furthermore, while the other compressors tend to gain efficiencies at higher rpm, the roots tends to experience decreased efficiencies as boost levels rise or for sustained maximum output periods.
 

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one more for you
Turbochargers are quite efficient

In general, turbo compressors are considered more efficient than supercharger compressors, and on diesels turbocharging can actually improve fuel economy and emissions. Because of the exhaust modifications required, and various others, turbocharging is a more complicated add-on at the aftermarket level, although this problem is less constraining at the OEM level. As a design issue the turbo is generally more compact than the supercharger, and it can fit wherever in the engine compartment there's room, although it wants to be close to the exhaust manifold (whereas the supercharger needs the space at the front of the block for the belt drive, an already crowded area).
 

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The guys at Lou Fusz Saturn in Columbia, Mo. turbocharged a N/A Ion '05 for around 300hp at 8lbs of boost. They said they could do 12lbs all day. They were told the stock internals could handle up to 700hp.
 

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the 2.2l rods snap at 289hp at the crank
 
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