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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Foglight Project, in progress....

Parts Needed for OEM Fog Lamp Installation (Not Completed) by AlphaJaguar5


(1) Dash Switch Pigtails = 22705523
(2) Fog Lamp Pigtails = 12102900
(1) Dash Switch = 22666418
(1) Fog Lamp Relay = 15328866
(2) Fog Lamps = 10335108
(1) Fog Lamp Grill = 15223620
(2) Lamp Adjuster = 22685052

Switch Wiring Diagram said:
TAB

C------------------ B




D-------------------A​


A= Circuit # 151 Black/White Ground
B= Grey # 8 Instrument Panel Lamp Supply Volatge (Dimmer)
C= Yellow # 317 Fog Lamp Relay Coil Supply Voltage
D= Orange# 192 Front Fog Lamp Switch Signal/Fog Lamps Enable
All Info is to credited to MailMars & Dam718
(I (AlphaJaguar5) just updated and organized everything as of 12/27/2007)
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Please Read Quote Below

AlphaJaguar5 said:
All of the below conversation is of MailMars and Dam718 creating a logic circuit to duplicate the factory option not present in 05 and under PCM's. To make a kit with a basic relay setup, not using your PCM, you do not need p/n [(1) Fog Lamp Relay = 15328866].
Damn Vbulliten I am your boss dont tell me I need more than 10char!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Now that the boost guage is finished.. I am starting on the fog lights. I need to get the terminals for a 56-way F amp connector. Terminals or Terminals with Pig Tails... If anyone knows of a dead ION or the such. Need the small ( believe micro-64 x 3) and the 280 series terminals. I had all the time in the world for the Boost Guage. With this, time is starting to get compressed.. Any help would be appreciated.. Thanks to WOT for his great input....

Mark
goofyguy said:
do you have the housings already? If so part numbers please. I had the local guy look them up but they had the same part number for both sides?
They are going into blank positions in the connectors. One is a 280 series Female and the others look like micro 64s but they are not Delphi connectors and WOT informed me they are AMP/Lear so the retainers might not work. Basically, I need the terminals and/or the terminals with a pigtail (preferred). The connector/housings PN# 1326144-1 for the black and 1326144-2 for the gray. I just need to add a couple of terminals to the above referenced connectors. I simply want to put the right terminal in the right connector.

Mark
 

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If I'm not mistaken you will need to order the Comp Pack front grille as well??(that black platic insert where the fog lamps themselves mount)
I've never really checked it out in parts - but it must be different to be able to mount the lamps.

The MetriPac 280 terminals shouldnt be too bad Mark, just get a few from a GM dealer, or (if necc) book it in there to have THEM R&R the BCM and add the circuits. Might cost you a couple hrs labour but might extend your sanity!! :p

WOT
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Fog Light Parts list

Here is the parts list......

QTY PN# Desc List per
2 10335108 Lamp ASM-FR 89.36
1 15328866 Relay ASM 10.84
2 22685052 Adjuster AS 31.69
1 22666418 Switch ASM-Fog LP 31.12
1 15223620 Grille-Rad-Lower 69.21


Thats the major parts list for the Fogs....


Mark

Note: This does not include the service connector/pigtails for the foglight connector and any other misc parts.. ie., BCM connectors/service pigtails and any connectors/wire for the harness ext........
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
mailmars said:
Here is the parts list......

QTY PN# Desc List per
2 10335108 Lamp ASM-FR 89.36
1 15328866 Relay ASM 10.84
2 22685052 Adjuster AS 31.69
1 22666418 Switch ASM-Fog LP 31.12
1 15223620 Grille-Rad-Lower 69.21


Thats the major parts list for the Fogs....


Mark

Note: This does not include the service connector/pigtails for the foglight connector and any other misc parts.. ie., BCM connectors/service pigtails and any connectors/wire for the harness ext........
I have all of the parts in... You can delete 22685052 as they are not needed on this lamp assbly. I also have the pigtails for the lamps and for the main power junction box (under hood fuse box). When I get the install complete, I will post what I used up so there will be a fairly close parts list with expendables. I also have a 56 way from wrecked 03 for the BCM in route along with C3 from the under hood fuse box to match some sample terminals that I got from Kimball Midwest. If they match up, I will also post those numbers along with the replacement GM number. Install starts on Friday..........

Still need those pics if anyone has them or is willing to take them. PM, e-mail or post in thread......


Thanks,

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well, there is a problem.. So anyone else thinking of this hang on. The relay circuit (#317) is ALWAYS high. I am going to take it to a mod friendly dealer and take a look at the config file sometime in the next week or so. Any input from the forum would be appreciated. It is a bit strange, I can not see GM leaving a set of outputs high instead of low as not used. I wonder if it is VIN triggered....

Mark
 

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Hey Mailmars, any update on getting the foglights working?

No pressure, just curious.

I do have a question for ya... I see your part numbers for the lamp assemblies are the same. Is there no differentiation between the right and left lamp assemblies?

Does the parts list you have so far include the inserts which go in the bumper? I don't know what name they would be referred to as... Maybe fog lamp housings? Grille inserts? I just don't know.

They would be the part that replaces the two blank grille inserts that are where the fog lights are supposed to mount.

Is that this part?

1 15223620 Grille-Rad-Lower 69.21

And again, if this is the part does it come with both the right and left lamp housings?

Thanks for any info you can provide!

Another question, or comment rather, is have you tried just installing your own relay network to the factory switch?

I would envision the factory switch having 4 wires, although I could be wrong. 2 wires for illumination. And two wires for triggering the relay network for the fog lamps. One of the trigger wires going to ground, and another that passes ground to the relay when the switch is in the "On" position.

A standard 5 pole relay should be able to be wired to the fog lamps like this.

+12V from the headlamp LOW BEAM output, and ground from the fog lamp switch will go the relay solenoid. This will allow the relay to only actuate when the low beams are on, and the switch is depressed. Any other condition will turn the foglights off. (i.e. headlamps off, or high beams on, or fog lamp switch off...)

You could then route a +12V fused link to the normally open pole of the switch portion of the relay, and the positive wire of the fog lamp assemblies to the common pole of the relay switch. This will allow +12V to pass through the relay to the positive power side of the foglamps. The ground side of the fog lamps can simply be tapped into any chassis ground point.

You could have the relay network and fuses all under the hood (Neatly tied somewhere not visible) and the only firewall penetration you would have to make is the ground actuation wire for the relay solenoid coming from the foglamp switch.

Not sure if it would work, but it may be worlds easier than trying to tie into the BCM... And the important thing here is that it maintains that stock appearance.

That's why I want the factory fogs... Stock clean appearance... Functionality at that point I will take any way I can get it. The less I have to tap into as far as factory wiring goes, the better...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
dam718 said:
Hey Mailmars, any update on getting the foglights working?

No pressure, just curious.

I do have a question for ya... I see your part numbers for the lamp assemblies are the same. Is there no differentiation between the right and left lamp assemblies?

Does the parts list you have so far include the inserts which go in the bumper? I don't know what name they would be referred to as... Maybe fog lamp housings? Grille inserts? I just don't know.

They would be the part that replaces the two blank grille inserts that are where the fog lights are supposed to mount.

Is that this part?

1 15223620 Grille-Rad-Lower 69.21

And again, if this is the part does it come with both the right and left lamp housings?

Thanks for any info you can provide!

Another question, or comment rather, is have you tried just installing your own relay network to the factory switch?

I would envision the factory switch having 4 wires, although I could be wrong. 2 wires for illumination. And two wires for triggering the relay network for the fog lamps. One of the trigger wires going to ground, and another that passes ground to the relay when the switch is in the "On" position.

A standard 5 pole relay should be able to be wired to the fog lamps like this.

+12V from the headlamp LOW BEAM output, and ground from the fog lamp switch will go the relay solenoid. This will allow the relay to only actuate when the low beams are on, and the switch is depressed. Any other condition will turn the foglights off. (i.e. headlamps off, or high beams on, or fog lamp switch off...)

You could then route a +12V fused link to the normally open pole of the switch portion of the relay, and the positive wire of the fog lamp assemblies to the common pole of the relay switch. This will allow +12V to pass through the relay to the positive power side of the foglamps. The ground side of the fog lamps can simply be tapped into any chassis ground point.

You could have the relay network and fuses all under the hood (Neatly tied somewhere not visible) and the only firewall penetration you would have to make is the ground actuation wire for the relay solenoid coming from the foglamp switch.

Not sure if it would work, but it may be worlds easier than trying to tie into the BCM... And the important thing here is that it maintains that stock appearance.

That's why I want the factory fogs... Stock clean appearance... Functionality at that point I will take any way I can get it. The less I have to tap into as far as factory wiring goes, the better...
No pressure taken :) Just finished going over the BCM programming and that is not going to work. The logic simply is not there.. What a bummer.. :(
Basically, I am going from the low beam 12v thru a switch to the relay that is in the under hood fuse box. It really is a pain that GM did it this way but hey, that’s what they did..

The lower grille has the fog mounts for left and right. There are 4 screws under the lower fascia. Simply remove the four screws and push the old one out. I had to climb under and work the center out. Put the comp lower grille in and install the 4 screws.


The OEM switch is a momentary switch, so it does not hold to ground. It is designed to drop the switch circuit to 0 and raise it. The BCM detects the transition from 12 to 0 and switches a logic circuit. The current BCM at least before May 05 does not activate the pin on the BCM for the switch. I am still going to use the main fuse buss (just one more wire) and the oem relay and fuse position (already wired). So I have about 2 more hours of work and it will be finished and they look sharp.. FYI the terminals on the BCM are AMP/Tyco micro quadlok and power quadlok.... The terminals for the main fuse box connectors are standard GM 280 no tang..


Mark
 

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Hmm... Sounds like a REAL fun time! :D

So were you able to make the factory momentary switch work somehow? I'd definitely be interested in finding out how you did this...

If this is all done via logic circuits in the BCM, that is pure bliss... More like a pure pain in the ass... :mad:

Could the factory momentary switch be used with standard mechanical latching relays? Also, what kind of illumination is in the factory switch?

I suspect it has standard panel illumination which lights with the dash lights, and possibly an LED signifying that the fog lights are on?

It may be a bit complex to get everything working without using the BCM knowing it's a momentary switch, but I am always up for a challenge!

I'm no engineering guru... Just an MECP certified First Class installer with an auto security specialist certification. I've had to design some pretty elaborite relay networks in the past for things like door locks and power window modules. I've also installed many sets of fogs, and this will be the first with a momentary switch... excellent :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
dam718 said:
Hmm... Sounds like a REAL fun time! :D

So were you able to make the factory momentary switch work somehow? I'd definitely be interested in finding out how you did this...

If this is all done via logic circuits in the BCM, that is pure bliss... More like a pure pain in the ass... :mad:

Could the factory momentary switch be used with standard mechanical latching relays? Also, what kind of illumination is in the factory switch?

I suspect it has standard panel illumination which lights with the dash lights, and possibly an LED signifying that the fog lights are on?

It may be a bit complex to get everything working without using the BCM knowing it's a momentary switch, but I am always up for a challenge!

I'm no engineering guru... Just an MECP certified First Class installer with an auto security specialist certification. I've had to design some pretty elaborite relay networks in the past for things like door locks and power window modules. I've also installed many sets of fogs, and this will be the first with a momentary switch... excellent :eek:
I am not going to use the OEM switch for the circuit. I am going use a simple rocker mounted below the trunk release. Relay circut will go from ( and I did just change my mind) Parking light circuit to the switch, from the switch going to the fog relay. Relay pulls about 150mA and that is less than 1 percent of that circuit load so nothing should notice. Of course this is subject to change depending on if C3-D2 in the main underhood fuse buss is really hot as the diagram says it is :)


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
amishland said:
mark what is the trick? I am getting my parts for the install this monday

I was tinkering and playing with a couple of ideas for the switch plus this or that and decided that I would put together a logic circuit to mimic the BCMs functions other than off with high beams. I could to a logic input for that but why? I have climbed all over the California vehicle code and as far as CA is concerned it is not a problem. I am not going to worry about that switch. The parts are about 10 bucks or so and I will post the schematics as soon as I have built a couple and completely test them. As a matter of fact, the first two are scheduled for destruction while testing for overload protection (how well the switch protects the car) and durability.

Remind me in the morning to post a brief rundown on how the car has to be wired to support the switch. I am not home right now, so I will have to get to the car diagrams to put the narrative together properly......



Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
The relay switch that I am making is a dual d flop with a grounded base transistor switch. What you are going to need and you can install a set fogs keeping this in mind. You are going to have to leave provisions for BATT, 12V Relay Voltage supply, ground, lead to fog light N/O momentary switch. I am using the parking lamp circuit and taking it from C3-B2 in the main fuse junction box (under hood) for the fog relay voltage and that goes to a rocker switch right now(soon to replaced) with the other side of the switch going to C2-E10. Using the OEM relay on the main fuse box. Taking the lines for the lights from C3-C12 and D-12. The terminals are standard 280 series, no tang. Anyway, I am building 1 of the test switches now and we will see what it takes to blow it up. One of the main issues is preserving the vehicles wiring in case of a short. All of the semiconductors have less than 1A Ic max with out heat sinking will most likely blow at 500mA. The relay switch coil is 150mA and the LED in the OEM switch is 016mA measured. Back to the bench I go....


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
speedingredline said:
so is this the current correct part list. I'm going to the dealer tomorrow.
Drop the adjusters @31.96 x 2,the dealer that I bought them from did not make me keep them. The adjuster is part of the lamp asm. Also there are some misc parts that you will need. I have not listed them yet (I do not know why). The service pigtails for the Lamps and the service pigtail for the switch. They are listed in the parts catalog so the dealer should have no problem.


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
speedingredline said:
In english please, I don't read technical well! :D
It is in english... :D I was explaining the switch and the connections that are to be required. I need to pick another relay switch transistor. The one that I had blew after about 2 hours with a 300mA load, not good. No smoke just opened up. The main point was that I used the parking lamp circuit to drive the relay using the buss in the main under hood buss. It is about 1 percent of the load so that is not a problem and if you leave them on; the chime reminds you to turn off the damn lights. I also used the existing fog light circuits in the main junction buss. Power distribution is already there.... :)


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Logic switch prototype is finished and it passed all of the test that I have. It was tested for 100 switches, 200mA realy load x48hrs, dead short on relay volatge output (transistor opened in 22mS) power up state=offx100 resets (simulates batt disconnects and reconnects). temp from -10f to 140f full load (thermal cold shutdown is -45c so I see no reason to test much colder than 0f) Final drawings and parts list should be available mid next week.....


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
speedingredline said:
never mind, I saw your other post. build ourselves thats cool, when will you be posting the parts list for the circuit
How about right now? :D I hope that works for you. Just be advised that this is prototype rev-2. I do not see to much change between this and the final, just looking at beefing up another transistor. :)


Mark

The parts on here are the generic numbers. Any semiconductor cross reference will be able to cross them to many manufactures. I have the above from NTE, SK and National.

The Final Drawing is now the one attached to the message. The parts list is integrated to the drawing along with the connectios. Cost is about $8 bucks for the first one. Build time is about 2 hours. I must say that this is one hell of a tested PCB Assbly. If you have the time and want your fogs as close to OEM as possible, this is the cat's meow....

Marked the polarity of the caps and changed a typeO in regards to the now correctly ID'd Q2. 10/11/05
 

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I still think there's GOTTA be a way to make it work through software
I STILL dont see T98 as an available choice in TIS even when I use a VIN with Perf Pack (PDA). Hmmm
WOT
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
WopOnTour said:
I still think there's GOTTA be a way to make it work through software
I STILL dont see T98 as an available choice in TIS even when I use a VIN with Perf Pack (PDA). Hmmm
WOT
If there was as a 05 BCM from a wreck or blown that I could open, then we could see. I will bet that the PCB is the same just missing a chip and supporting parts. I wish there was a way, I really,really,really.. ahhh you get the point. Until then, this is the best that I could come up with....
Hell, it might be jumper configured in the BCM..



Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
There are a couple of changes to the previous drawing. Change the 120ohm 1 watt to a 150ohm 1 watt, the 1 uF cap on the base of the 2N3904 should be + on pin one (1) IC (CD4013B). It has been in my car for 1 week and functions fine. The OEM switch has dirty contact action (not real crisp). I will update and clean up the drawing and this is done..... :D

Mark
 
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