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PIP#3932 - Sept.29, 2006 - Slipping clutches, Broken Axles

25K views 76 replies 32 participants last post by  BKTU1 
#1 · (Edited)
Found this on the Cobalt forums:
(note that it is not a Techncal Service Bulletin)

Document ID# 1864872
Subject: Transmission fluid Leak Slipping Clutch Or Broken Axle Shaft - keywords crack housing shift slip #PIP3932 - (09/29/2006)

Models: 2005-2007 Chevrolet Cobalt SS
2004-2007 Saturn Ion Redline

Equipped with a 5-Speed Manual Transmission (RPO MU3)

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
Some customers have commented about transmission oil in the clutch housing, slipping clutches or broken axle shafts on this model. An analysis of several of these failures has revealed that the problem is due to excessive front wheel hop during WOT acceleration events.

Excessive wheel hop transmits a torsional shock load into the transmission case. This causes the case to crack and transmission fluid to leak into the clutch housing. See photos below.

Recommendation/Instructions:
Stiffer axle shafts and hardware will change the system harmonics and help prevent wheel hop. These planned changes will not be available until the 2008 model year.

Note:: Be advised that failures of this nature are abuse. They are NOT defects in materials or workmanship for which General Motors would be responsible and should not be covered under the terms of the new vehicle warranty. Vehicles with this complaint should be inspected by the dealer and Area Vehicle Manager. A product report should be submitted on each.
 
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#52 ·
socalsilverRL said:
lol...man I wish I had my camera at the last HIN that was out here in LA...man they had a REAL mini cooper, with a truck bed?!?, that had dual engines like that. Each engine was a, iirc, 2.0T putting out over 1000HP each, it was actually narrowed 6", and was a 1 seater. the thing even had dual throttle control, so you could give more gas to one engine over the other.
omg thats sick
 
#53 ·
I dont understand how they can not cover this under warranty, as long as the car is stock. Yes, the car is a high performance car and has a lot of power, and I think GM should put parts on the car that can handle its own power. It shouldnt matter if I launch the car at every light, the car should be able to handle its own power. Thats dumb....
 
#54 ·
Blubatmobile said:
I dont understand how they can not cover this under warranty, as long as the car is stock. Yes, the car is a high performance car and has a lot of power, and I think GM should put parts on the car that can handle its own power. It shouldnt matter if I launch the car at every light, the car should be able to handle its own power. Thats dumb....
That's rediculous... by that token, why shouldn't I be able to kick a hole in my dash and demand a new dash? Or why not just sandblast all the paint off my car and demand a new paint job? I mean hey, there's sand outside, so it should be able to take it. Abuse is abuse, and it is NEVER covered under warranty. If you're wheel hopping so badly and frequently that you break the tranny housing, you're an idiot. This isn't something that occurs if you hop 10-20 times, this is when people go to the strip, launch like an idiot, and hop down the first 1/8 mile over and over again. Why should GM pay for stupid? It will happen on SRT's, SS/SC's, RL's, Evo, STi, WRX's... Go ask guys with AWD cars how their dealers feel about blown diffs.

A performance car is not indestructible, it's simply better equipped to handle the 'abuse' that high performance driving can put on a car...
 
#55 ·
Sp00ner said:
A performance car is not indestructible, it's simply better equipped to handle the 'abuse' that high performance driving can put on a car...
+ 5/8

10 char sucks
 
#56 ·
Sp00ner said:
That's rediculous... by that token, why shouldn't I be able to kick a hole in my dash and demand a new dash? Or why not just sandblast all the paint off my car and demand a new paint job? I mean hey, there's sand outside, so it should be able to take it.
+15mm open end wrench
 
#57 ·
Sp00ner said:
That's rediculous... by that token, why shouldn't I be able to kick a hole in my dash and demand a new dash? Or why not just sandblast all the paint off my car and demand a new paint job? I mean hey, there's sand outside, so it should be able to take it. Abuse is abuse, and it is NEVER covered under warranty. If you're wheel hopping so badly and frequently that you break the tranny housing, you're an idiot. This isn't something that occurs if you hop 10-20 times, this is when people go to the strip, launch like an idiot, and hop down the first 1/8 mile over and over again. Why should GM pay for stupid? It will happen on SRT's, SS/SC's, RL's, Evo, STi, WRX's... Go ask guys with AWD cars how their dealers feel about blown diffs.

A performance car is not indestructible, it's simply better equipped to handle the 'abuse' that high performance driving can put on a car...
Everything that you described something that you are doing to the car, ya, hitting the dash and putting a hole in it obviously will not be covered because it is self inflicted. Im talking strictly mechanical. I think GM should make the parts strong enough to handle its own power. If they do that, then they should have nothing to worry about when all the assholes go out and abuse the car, cause the parts can take it, simple as that.
 
#58 ·
Blubatmobile said:
Everything that you described something that you are doing to the car, ya, hitting the dash and putting a hole in it obviously will not be covered because it is self inflicted. Im talking strictly mechanical. I think GM should make the parts strong enough to handle its own power. If they do that, then they should have nothing to worry about when all the assholes go out and abuse the car, cause the parts can take it, simple as that.
Or they could only sell it to mature individuals who won't go out and beat the crap out of it. Or they could put the axles from a tank in the thing so that every 15 year old who got the car from mommy and daddy can smoke the tires out all day long. Or they could simply warranty everything and have a pit crew that follows every driver around to fix things when they break it. C'mopn man think about what you are saying. From your post you could say that the clutch shouyld be designed to take 7k launches all day long slipping the clutch out. The brakes should never fail, bulbs never burn out. C'mon...
 
#59 ·
rlinbatonrouge said:
Or they could only sell it to mature individuals who won't go out and beat the crap out of it. Or they could put the axles from a tank in the thing so that every 15 year old who got the car from mommy and daddy can smoke the tires out all day long. Or they could simply warranty everything and have a pit crew that follows every driver around to fix things when they break it. C'mopn man think about what you are saying. From your post you could say that the clutch shouyld be designed to take 7k launches all day long slipping the clutch out. The brakes should never fail, bulbs never burn out. C'mon...
You know, I was only stating my opinion on how the warranty should work. I dont understand why youre being such an ass talking about putting tank axles on and shit. I was only saying that the car should be able to handle its own power. Thats great that you dont agree, and no, I dont think a clutch should be covered. Thats a part that wears out, just like brakes and light bulbs and whatever smartass things you said. Whats your beef?
 
#60 ·
if your wheel hoppin bad enough to crack the tranny housing thats abuse... how many 3+ clutch drops can a car handle ??? performance or not... i used to get mad wheel hop in a single cam sedan civic stick.... dropint at 2+... i woulent drop at anything over 1.5...... and even then i dont drop it i feather it...
 
#61 ·
Blubatmobile said:
Everything that you described something that you are doing to the car, ya, hitting the dash and putting a hole in it obviously will not be covered because it is self inflicted.
Wheel hop to the point of breaking the tranny case is also self-inflicted. I've put 6-7 races, several drag strip trips, and drive it like it's supposed to be driven daily. Never broken anything.

My examples are still legit. I'm simply taking them to the extreme. How about this...
You load a bunch of 2x4's into the trunk. Hit the brakes and one comes flying forward punching a hole into the dash. Why shouldn't GM cover that in your logic? If they were going to make the trunk large enough to contain wood, then why shouldn't they know you're going to have to hit the brakes that hard, and therefore reinforce the dash because of it?

What if you have a big 'dip' at the front of your driveway that you go over at 20mph over and over again. In a few weeks your entire front suspension is shot. Why shouldn't GM cover that? Shouldn't they know that the someone is going to have a big dip in front of the driveway, and why shouldn't the car be able to go over anyting that the front end can clear without damage?

Point being, it's abuse. Plain and simple. You can abuse a car in a number of ways that don't exceed design tolerances. Neutral dropping an automatic is a great example too...
 
#62 ·
**** i thought that this was a tsb ... damnit .... now i have to pay for a clutch !!!!! :mad: :( :(
 
#63 ·
I had the pleasant experience last night of shredding both the left outer and right inner CV joints. Just one two many times of trying to push the car a little beyond its limits.. yes I said limits.. the Redline is an amazing car but it is not indestructable. Deep down inside it's still an econobox. Go watch a NASCAR race. How many parts on those million dollar cars fail each week? Or take NHRA... engine rebuilds every 1/4 mile. Anyone who argues that the manufactuer of a vehicle should have designed it to handle it's own power should think more along the lines of driver's handling their cars power. Breaking parts is a part of racing.. it's how you learn what the car can and cannot do. Anyone who thinks a dealership or manufactuer should be funding their racing hobby, needs to find another hobby because you'll never be any good at it, if you understand my meaning.

By the way, I work for a Saturn dealership as a technician and my car is still under factory warranty. I will be paying for my axles out of my own pocket because I am 100% responsible for their destruction. I'm not totally innocent though.. I did take advantage of the free tow from roadside.. no one's perfect :)
 
#65 ·
SWCRedline said:
I had the pleasant experience last night of shredding both the left outer and right inner CV joints. Just one two many times of trying to push the car a little beyond its limits.. yes I said limits.. the Redline is an amazing car but it is not indestructable. Deep down inside it's still an econobox. Go watch a NASCAR race. How many parts on those million dollar cars fail each week? Or take NHRA... engine rebuilds every 1/4 mile. Anyone who argues that the manufactuer of a vehicle should have designed it to handle it's own power should think more along the lines of driver's handling their cars power. Breaking parts is a part of racing.. it's how you learn what the car can and cannot do. Anyone who thinks a dealership or manufactuer should be funding their racing hobby, needs to find another hobby because you'll never be any good at it, if you understand my meaning.

By the way, I work for a Saturn dealership as a technician and my car is still under factory warranty. I will be paying for my axles out of my own pocket because I am 100% responsible for their destruction. I'm not totally innocent though.. I did take advantage of the free tow from roadside.. no one's perfect :)

you're pretty cool in my books
:bigthumb:
.
 
#66 ·
+1 for that.. never broken anything... thank god....never had excessive wheel hop either.. i did my suspension first.... and now i have the smm and traction bars...so i aint worried...except about installing my interceptors...
 
#67 · (Edited)
fullthrottle said:
its going to cost you about 6 or 700 just in labor charges if you have to pay for it.


or about 4.6 hrs
i had this exact thing happen to me. in my case there was a lot of broken parts inside and if the case is cracked they will put a ney tranny in and not just replace parts.....my warrenty covered this, but they said they wouldn't cover it again because they "knew" it was abuse. if i would have had to pay out of my pocket it would have been almost $5900.00.
they also have to put a new clutch in which was included in the above price.

btw...i wasn't out racing my car every weekeng and launching like an idiot.
 
#69 ·
GM going cheap on their parts. but Now that I think about it every one I know that has a new car(SRT4 STI, EVO Redline, SS/SC SI) are all having their problems so I don't feel so bad anymore
 
#70 ·
Current Tranny Problem

I'm going to post here because it seems relevant.
First let me give you a brief background. If I wheel hop 99% of the time I left off the gas quickly. I don't rev up from a stand still and gun it. 98% of the time I only peg it if the car is already rolling in second gear or higher.

Now to the details:
A few days ago I was pushing the car rather quickly. This was one of the few times that I was in first gear rolling at approximately 3k when I finished my left turn. When I straightened out I pegged it and started accelerating through the gears. I stopped when I was driving halfway through 4th gear and started slowing down and driving normally while shifting into 5th. Ahead when I slowly approached the light I stopped like any normal person. At this point the entire “RedLine” urge was out of me and I started to drive normally. When the light turned green I slowly started accelerating as if I was driving Ms. Daisy. Half way while I was releasing the clutch I heard a POP and the car hopped up. I quickly threw the clutch back in and tried it again so I can get out of the intersection. I pulled right over and looked underneath the car and it looked like the car was leaking black oil. I recently found out that it was not motor oil but tranny oil.

Sorry for the long story but my question is who should pay for this GM or me.
 
#71 ·
they will make you pay, or fight you tooth and nail to replace the tranny. I had to fight tooth and nail to get mine replaced. They WILL try and tell you "you drive the car too hard" or "you race the car." and, will bring up instances of you telling them about any "kill stories." So, good luck and get the number for Saturn Corporate (its the same # as the roadside assistance).

This is GM's way of backing out of making a tranny that is made to handle 200 ft/lb of tq, when our car is rated STOCK at 198...cutting it kinda close?
It prolly would have raised the price tag of the car tooo much to get the MU4 trans installed instead...
...i mean is this the way GM treats its Corvette owners? or the Sky Redline owners? i guess if you pay less than $30K for your car, the corporation could give 2 sh-ts about you and your crappy car.
 
#72 · (Edited)
socalsilverRL said:
they will make you pay, or fight you tooth and nail to replace the tranny. I had to fight tooth and nail to get mine replaced. They WILL try and tell you "you drive the car too hard" or "you race the car." and, will bring up instances of you telling them about any "kill stories." So, good luck and get the number for Saturn Corporate (its the same # as the roadside assistance).

This is GM's way of backing out of making a tranny that is made to handle 200 ft/lb of tq, when our car is rated STOCK at 198...cutting it kinda close?
It prolly would have raised the price tag of the car tooo much to get the MU4 trans installed instead...
...i mean is this the way GM treats its Corvette owners? or the Sky Redline owners? i guess if you pay less than $30K for your car, the corporation could give 2 sh-ts about you and your crappy car.
Wow , feeling a little "jilted" lately?
FYI transaxle's TQ "rating" is not directly tied to the peak TQ of the engine in front of it. There's PLENTY of overhead on this trans for the stock/stage2 levels of TQ
JMO
WOT
 
#73 ·
WopOnTour said:
Wow , feeling a little "jilted" lately?
FYI transaxle's TQ "rating" is not directly tied to the peak TQ of the engine in front of it. There's PLENTY of overhead on this trans for the stock/stage2 levels of TQ
JMO
WOT

Well, he did end up having to unload the car after months of dealer/warranty hassle for an Evo. So he must have felt wronged in some way. Right or wrong they lost a customer here.
 
#75 ·
vandy0419 said:
Are you being serious? How much are you making dude? I bust my ass all the time for a mesely $11.33/hr! I'd work at Taco Bell if I could make that much!
I only make $8.80 an hour. but the local economy is shot, so everything is Uber-Cheap. $15000.00 houses FTW!
 
#76 ·
So... Just curious... Been like 3 years since there was a post in this thread... Wondering how all the people that were defending GM and pointing out that they shouldn't cover abuse feel now..? That is, now that we know FOR SURE that it was a design flaw in the tranny/axle geometry that's 100% cured with a set of rotated mounts. I personally feel that GM should have covered these issues and reimbursed anyone who broke this stuff and paid out of pocket. It's a design flaw, plain and simple, abuse or not.

For the record, the 1st 8 months I owned the car = 3 broken axles. Driving somewhat aggressively but as an adult who knows how to drive, not a teenager doing burnouts everywhere. NEVER did a clutch dump, ever. Only been down the 1/4 mile 3 times, EVER (broke an axle 1st time), all launches from idle, roll into throttle. 2 more broken during normal driving - hit a patch of loose gravel, get a little hop - SNAP before I could even back out of it.

Now 1 year and counting on the unmentionable mounts - multiple long burnouts (literally for no other reason then to prove than the mounts work), 1.5 autocross seasons and a couple more drag passes + beating on the car a lot harder than I used to 'cuz I can actually USE 1st gear now - zero broken axles.

Hmmm...
 
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