Saturn ION RedLine Forums banner

RAGEOUS - General update and lowering spring question

14K views 89 replies 8 participants last post by  RAGEOUS 
#1 ·
Hello my old Redline friends!

Apologies as I have not posted in here in FOREVER but I have been very busy over the past few *years* but have logged in and read up every once in a while. Nice to see that a lot of the forum members I recall are still here - very nice!

So quickly on myself, I've got my MBA and actually now work for the company I've always wanted to work for and will make a lot of you happy - General Motors of Canada! I've been with them just over a year (started May 2014) and work in the field covering a territory as a Connected Customer Specialist. Basically that means I educate dealership staff on in-vehicle technologies focusing primarily on OnStar and the infotainment systems. Very cool stuff, basically makes me the equivalent of a GM Geek Squad rep (a la Best Buy). Get a new company vehicle every 4 months or 7400 miles, whichever comes first. To date I have had: '14 Chevy Trax LTZ, '15 Chevy Impala LTZ, '15 GMC Terrain Denali, and am currently in a '15 GMC Canyon SLT. Just wait til the next one by August!

Anyway, enough about me and back to my awesome 2007 Saturn ION3 QC who is still running like a champ now at 46000 miles (yeah, I've finally taken her on some long trips and she's stretched her legs a bit. I've even done some mods/upgrades to her since my last update (beyond the hidden antenna mod lol) that I hope to make some of you proud. I'll post pics when I have a chance but here's a quick recap:

-Changed high center brake lamp lights to LED
-Stock air filter changed to K&N (still in regular airbox, not cold air)
-Replaced stock front rotors and pads with slotted StopTech discs and Hawk HPS pads
-Upgraded wheels to 17"x7" multi-spoke OZ Italia 150 that were black but I painted white with black accents to match my car
-Wrapped above wheels in Michelin PilotSport A/S3 Asymmetric 225/45/R17s
-Finally got brave enough to bake open my headlights and install the Morimoto Mini H1 HID kit with 5000K bulbs
-Along with the HID kit also installed LED "DRLs" (but not really, just tapped into the side marker light) but did NOT do it Audi R8 style as I originally longed to do. It's different but you'll have to wait for the pic! Also, need to bake them open again to change the LEDs as natural 5K white looks yellow compared to the 5K HIDs so I'l going to change them to cool white.

So as you can see, I may have been away but my passion for these great IONs has never left and I've been busy upgrading as well. Still have not gotten around to getting the ZZP bolt on supercharger kit but if I don't do it this year I will next year for sure. And true to my word in respect to you TRUE Redline owners, I have not yet placed my Redline emblem on my trunk lid and will not do so until I am supercharged. Such a small thing that others wouldn't think twice about but I totally respect.

Alright, so FINALLY to my question. My shocks/struts are not quite shot but the bounce test is taking about 2.5 rebounds to settle so I figure it's time to replace them for the first time. Using my sources I have learned that my ION3 comes with the FE2 suspension which according to the parts managers at dealerships is compatible/interchangeable with the sport FE3 suspension (which I assume is the Redline suspension). So given I am changing the struts/shocks, the rear shocks I realized could be removed without touching the spring but the struts entail spring removal. As that is a given, I am now figuring if I'm going to need the spring removed I might as well consider lowering the car and changing the read springs as well.

So here's what I'm asking - does FE2 and FE3 refer only to the shocks/struts or the suspension as a whole? Specifically, I want to know if the springs front/rear from a Redline would not just fit but SEAT properly in the housings in the rear and on the struts up front. I am not planning to use stock Redline springs but lowering springs FOR a Redline on my ION3 and just want to make sure they will seat properly in the housings. Anyone know?

Further, the springs I am considering are Tein S, but am of course open to feedback. I don't want a slammed drop, just a reasonable on (about 1.5") and still have a nice ride but good handling when pushed. So let me know.

I have other upgrades/mods I'm planning on this summer so I'll keep you posted and get pics soon, but I just wanted to say it's great to see all of you and that your passion for these awesome cars is still here after all these years!

:cowsmile:
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Fe1/2 is the base model. Fe3 is the Redline/SS/sc and Fe5 is the SS/tc
It gets stiffer as you go up. I would say 99percent of us use the Fe5 shocks and struts.
I really like my SSC springs. Most will refer you to YYZ or O TTP springs
 
#3 · (Edited)
YYZ are best on the market. Tein are drop springs only they have no progression you will ride hard. SSC springs are similar but better ride, pedders springs are more but better spring with drop. YYZ have smaller drop but are progressive so have good ride and handling. FE5 cobalt ss 08-10 parts are what you want.
 
#6 ·
Pedder springs will work fine you just need the ion top hats with the shim adapters from powellracing. The YYZ full setup from ced come put together for your car. Redlines start off as regular ions so all the FE upgrades will fit.

FE5 refers to the evolution stage of the parts. FE5 was the final stage for the cobalt parts that fit our cars because the ion was the first design with this platform. FE5 contains a handful of front end stuff.
Shocks, Struts,Control arms and such all great upgrades for any ion.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Hey Chicken man - I remember you!

Thanks guys, that's all I needed to confirm. I don't want to do any additional mods (ie. requiring adapters or anything) so I will just upgrade to FE3 components. Remember, my whole intent with my ION3 was to turn her INTO a Redline as closely as possible - you guys already HAVE Redlines and are bringing them to the next level. I'll be happy to hit your starting point.

Will likely get OEM FE3 shocks/struts and look for Redline-specific lowering springs to fit them based on what you have recommended. Sounds like there are better alternatives to Teins that will both lower (not drastically) but also improve performance aside from only looks. Thanks again for all the help!


**Sorry, one last question. On watching how-to's on youtube they say depending on your drop amount the camber will go negative by varying degrees. I've seen that there are camber kits to compensate but I was wondering if I would need to also get one of those kits or if just having an alignment done after the drop will suffice. Please advise, thanks!

:cowsmile:
 
#8 ·
The FE5 stuff isn't what needs the adapter, that is all plug and play. It will be the springs that need it depending what you get. SSC are for Saturn I think so no kit needed, pedders need the kit because they were only made for cobalt, and YYZ come all together ready to go. If you are doing shocks and struts do FE5.
If you are dropping a regular ION you will prolly need an alignment and maybe camber kits because it will be a large drop. Redlines are like a 1.5 drop with springs and I think the redlines were dropped like 2-3 from stock.
 
#9 ·
Excellent feedback, much appreciated.

Yes, I knew the Redlines were lower from factory than regular IONs but only now that you pointed it out did I realize the drop would be significantly more than all of yours. The Teins for example said an average drop of about 1.5" from REDLINE stance. That means as you said, I would be coming down at LEAST 2" if not more which would affect my camber more drastically than all of yours.

Okay, so a camber kit will be needed. I will look into FE5 shock/struts and perhaps that plug & play kit from YYZ CES if it makes things easier.

:cowsmile:
 
#10 ·
The only factory alignment adjustment anyone can make is front toe, so no, an alignment will not correct any camber changes--and I have seen alignment shops completely ignore adjusting aftermarket camber bolts.

However, as long as nothing is worn out or bent, the camber doesn't change that much if I recall--or at least it didn't back when I lowered my redline.

Remember also that since your struts compress and your control arms swing up and down, camber is a dynamically changing concept as the load changes on the suspension and that essentially, the extra negative camber induced by lowering springs is within the range that's been engineered into the car already, it's just that you start at a more aggressive static position.
 
#11 ·
Thanks Chicken man. Maybe I'll whip out my grade 6 protractor for a before and after to see the difference! lol

Absolutely nothing is bent. Again, not only is my ION the final model year (hence, as new as it can possible be) but I also have low mileage and have never been in an accident, hit any big bumps/potholes, never bottomed out, or done anything to stress the suspension. So appreciate the insight. Once I'm done all my upgrades I'll bring it in for an alignment and see what they say as well.

:cowsmile:
 
#12 ·
Im on pedder springs and never had mine aligned with no issues as well. My guess is you wont need camber kits, and from a stock spring height you are looking at prolly a 3-4 inch drop. The stock ride height on the ions was ridiculous. I do love yer color though, Id love mine in white.



black is sexy too though
 
#13 ·
This is the best picture I have, but you can somewhat tell. These are SSC springs.
Dropped the car just enough to square it off.
And yes, the ride height of the base Ions is ridiculous. Eventually I will be putting my stock RL springs on my base now that I have wheels on it.

 
#14 ·
Don't rule SS/TC springs out as a options. They lower the stance 1/2"-3/4" and handle great. Plus they don't cost an arm and a leg.

Here is my car with them on 18" sky wheels and 245/45s.





These are Progress Lowering springs with 225/40s.


These are Powell YYZ V1 with 225/40s
 
#15 ·
Don't rule SS/TC springs out as a options. They lower the stance 1/2"-3/4" and handle great. Plus they don't cost an arm and a leg.

Here is my car with them on 18" sky wheels and 245/45s.





That looks great! Is anything special needed to use those springs or is it just a simple swap out?
 
#17 ·
Lets take a moment to discuss those wheels. I read they weren't direct bolt on? Were they? Because I wanted those for my redline, and now seeing them, I really want them!
 
#20 ·
Thanks as always Chicken man, you're always been a major help even back when I joined in 2010.

So I'm heavily considering this set but they don't ship to Canada Cobalt FE5-YYZ Strut,Shock,Spring Plug and Play System FE5YYZ

If I somehow AM able to get this set, would your original comment of just everything from #18 and up apply given it is mostly assembled and I would be using the new springs?

Also, from as far as you can see would these work with my ION3 as long as I reuse the upper mounting hardware?

:cowsmile:
 
#21 ·
Sorry to be asking so many questions but again, I am not a pro and if I do this I only want to do it once and do it right.

I've been reading through this old thread about YYZ springs and it is basically saying ANY Cobalt FE5 spring will need a conversion kit to work on a Redline (and hence, my ION) http://www.redlineforums.com/forums...565-put-powell-yyz-springs-my-redline-10.html

From what all of you have been saying so far is that as long as I use the upper mounting hardware from my stock onto the new struts I should be alright. This seems contradictory. Am I missing something?

:cowsmile:
 
#22 ·
No, for that you need the shims also, I believe, since the springs are for Cobalts.

I haven't really been following the latest Powell parts, though, so a simple phone call to CED should get you the right stuff. They know what's up.
 
#23 ·
Man....as much as I want to go as far as FE5s like the rest of you, I'm thinking I might need to scale it back and just do FE3 to ensure compatibility.

Of course I would want the furthest evolution for our platform but I don't know how to go about modifying with conversion kits and shims. I just need a simple plug and play unless the conversion is REALLY easy. And I need to see what is involved.

Youtube has shown me how to do rear shocks and springs, and front struts and springs as long as you are replacing with stock. Beyond that I don't have any resource for further modification to make Cobalt FE5 fit in my original FE2 housings without a detailed walkthough. Anyone have a link to this conversion kit I could look at?

:cowsmile:
 
#26 ·
But that's the further problem 1313, CED doesn't SHIP to Canada so I can't even contact them.

Chicken man - from what everyone is saying, YYZ is apparently the best and if I'm going to spend money I'd prefer to get the best I can. If I don't go YYZ, what would you recommend as an alternative?

:cowsmile:
 
#27 ·
But that's the further problem 1313, CED doesn't SHIP to Canada so I can't even contact them.

Chicken man - from what everyone is saying, YYZ is apparently the best and if I'm going to spend money I'd prefer to get the best I can. If I don't go YYZ, what would you recommend as an alternative?

I mentioned before if you would like you can ship them to me and I'll re ship them to you, just a thought.

YYZ, Pedder, SSC, everything else are pretty much a drop spring = slammed and horrid ride. Pedder are cobalt springs so ya need new top hats and the shim kit from Powell, think they like 15$. I think the SSC springs are ion drop springs for the regular ion with a huge drop but when put on a redline it's only like a 1.5 from stock. They don't need the shims.

Just remember no matter what spring you go with you will need top hats cause they are prone to rust and most likely won't come apart nicely. I just took mine apart today to replace my struts and they were rusted up. Local part place had new ones luckily so got them back together hopefully get my stage2 axles in tomorrow, driver side done passenger side bein a pita.
 
#28 ·
Thanks 1313. I think I'm just going to go FE3 stock. As much as I'd like to do FE5 I know FE3 will slip right in no problem. The money saved can go toward front and rear sway bars I guess.

A bit of a let down seeing as I got my hopes up after all the cool stuff I heard about FE5 but skill ad logistics seem to be against me so I'll just revert to my original plan of trying to turn my ION3 into a factory Redline. Good enough I guess.

:cowsmile:
 
#30 ·
Thanks 1313. I think I'm just going to go FE3 stock. As much as I'd like to do FE5 I know FE3 will slip right in no problem. The money saved can go toward front and rear sway bars I guess.

A bit of a let down seeing as I got my hopes up after all the cool stuff I heard about FE5 but skill ad logistics seem to be against me so I'll just revert to my original plan of trying to turn my ION3 into a factory Redline. Good enough I guess.

Like goal said it is the spring that requires the shim kit not the fe5 update, the fe5 parts are a direct swap. The shim kit isn't a big deal. All it is is 2 big washers that sandwich the top hat bearing. You will want new top hats anyway so it's no big deal putting them in.

You will want
fe5 strut new
Spring retainer old
Spring new
Spring top old
1 shim from kit new
Bearing new comes with top hat
Other shim from kit
Center hat rubber from top hat
Old strut nut, fe5 nut won't work use stock nut
Top hat cover bolt it down
Stick it in car done
 
#29 · (Edited)
Youre still missing it. Fe5 shocks and struts will bolt right up. Its the SPRINGS you choose that cause the extra work. Yes, youre going to need new top hats, regardless. Yyz and pedders will require the extra work to make the SPRING fit.
Like I stated before, I use the SSC springs that were designed for ions. It will be a drastic drop for your car. For my redline it was 1.25 front, 1.5 back. But the redline sat lower then a base to start with.
I bought my redline in disappointment that I couldn't boost my 03. And didn't know crap about anything other than changing a tire and my oil. It really isn't hard to do this stuff if you just pay attention to what youre doing and do your research.
Were all here to help each other out. If you want yyz's with fe5s, just take our advice.
 
#31 ·
Alright, I know I am really slow in getting this but like I said, I'm an amateur.

So first, thanks 1313 in pointing out what I would need and what the conversion kit would entail. I would have to first find one and second, find a way to get it. So for slow, basic me, could you please point out in this diagram using the numbers, explaining exactly what from the conversion kit would go where? (eg. the washers go between #this and ##this, etc.)



Second question for Mr. conservative me playing it safe: If I were to get FE5 shock/struts and FE3 springs - would ANY additional hardware be needed or could I just reuse all my hardware from my stockers (top hats, everything else)? The FE3 springs would fit on FE5 struts, correct?

:cowsmile:
 
#32 · (Edited)
Alright, I know I am really slow in getting this but like I said, I'm an amateur.

So first, thanks 1313 in pointing out what I would need and what the conversion kit would entail. I would have to first find one and second, find a way to get it. So for slow, basic me, could you please point out in this diagram using the numbers, explaining exactly what from the conversion kit would go where? (eg. the washers go between #this and ##this, etc.)



Second question for Mr. conservative me playing it safe: If I were to get FE5 shock/struts and FE3 springs - would ANY additional hardware be needed or could I just reuse all my hardware from my stockers (top hats, everything else)? The FE3 springs would fit on FE5 struts, correct?

The shims go one both sides of 17 if you buy Pedder springs. If you can find a set of redline springs you wouldn't need shims but you will need new top hats because I can guaranty yours will most likely not come apart well. They are about 50$ for the set. If you do fe5 struts/shocks you can get it all from Amazon and just go with the SSC or used redline springs and new top hats.



Just did mine these are 2 years old had to cut 2 bolts

New ones

 
#33 ·
THAT'S the kind of completely obvious walkthrough I was needing 1313, thank you my friend!

Okay, so route 1 (conversion) - it's just two washers that sandwich #17 in the diagram? Are you guys using the terms "conversion kit" and "shim" interchangably? Because I liken a shim to a spacer, and that seems to be what you described.

Route 2 (FE5 shocks/struts & FE3 springs) - Completely fit together and no additional hardware needed? In the case that my top hats DO come apart nicely from my stock FE2 setup, would I even need to buy anything new aside from the shocks/struts/springs? I will if I need to but just want to know.

Thanks for the pics!

:cowsmile:
 
#34 · (Edited)
Getting an idea of what you want this is what I would suggest if you don't go with the YYZ setups.





x2

X2

Amazon.com: Sachs Strut Mounting Kit: Automotive x2

SSC Lowering Springs - Suspension & Brakes

Doing all new is the way to go. Your parts are going to be bad that is why you are replacing them.......why do half and half
Everything is on amazon cept the springs. Sign up for a 30day amazon prime trial and you get free shipping then wait a few weeks and cancel it.
 
#35 ·
Look at you 1313 - going the extra mile and even finding links for me. And going even FURTHER to show me how to be a weasel and get free shipping lol! XD

Once again, those prices won't apply to me as I cannot order from amazon.com, I have to use the Canadian site amazon.ca and they likely won't have the parts but I will look. Also, I had NO intention of or idea that I'd need to do anything with the Sway Bar Links if non-stock springs were going to be installed so I think that just about seals it for me. I'm going FE3 springs with FE5 shocks/struts - all stock. I know, I think a bunch of you were rooting for me to finally do my first major aftermarket upgrade but hey - even THIS upgrade with all stock OEM components is way better than what I currently have so I'll be happy. I'll be lower and handle better, and that's what I was after.

Really appreciate all the help everyone. I'll start ordering tomorrow and everything will likely arrive in a few weeks to a month. I'll keep you apprised of my progress and also post if I have any further questions.

One last bit - While I'm doing all of this I'm planning on getting a front strut bar from ZZP and a Powell Triple X Rear Sway Bar unless anyone suggests I go with something different for those two.

:cowsmile:
 
#36 ·
Look at you 1313 - going the extra mile and even finding links for me. And going even FURTHER to show me how to be a weasel and get free shipping lol! XD

Once again, those prices won't apply to me as I cannot order from amazon.com, I have to use the Canadian site amazon.ca and they likely won't have the parts but I will look. Also, I had NO intention of or idea that I'd need to do anything with the Sway Bar Links if non-stock springs were going to be installed so I think that just about seals it for me. I'm going FE3 springs with FE5 shocks/struts - all stock. I know, I think a bunch of you were rooting for me to finally do my first major aftermarket upgrade but hey - even THIS upgrade with all stock OEM components is way better than what I currently have so I'll be happy. I'll be lower and handle better, and that's what I was after.

Really appreciate all the help everyone. I'll start ordering tomorrow and everything will likely arrive in a few weeks to a month. I'll keep you apprised of my progress and also post if I have any further questions.

One last bit - While I'm doing all of this I'm planning on getting a front strut bar from ZZP and a Powell Triple X Rear Sway Bar unless anyone suggests I go with something different for those two.

You don't need end links they were just on my list but they aren't a bad thing to replace while ya under there. Check yer brakes too. I would worry the redline springs might not be enough drop for you. You might wanna do SSC if ya ordering from zzp anyway.
Strut bar is almost worthless, rear is supposed to be worth it but I'm goin with the zzp one cause I can't bring myself to pay 325$ for a metal bar.
 
#37 · (Edited)
It's $325?! Dagum. Okay I might just do the ZZP one then too. I'll still pop for the front one though, it's pretty cheap. As for the springs, it'll be okay. There will be a drop from where I am so that's good enough. I still want a nice ride and don't know if SSC is just going to drop me and run harsh. FE3s for sure won't seeing as they're factory.

Already did my front brakes last year, was in the initial post of this thread. StopTech slotted rotors and Hawk HPS pads. Haven't done the rears yet (in case you didn't know - ION 1-3 have lameo drums lol). Going to open them and see how they're doing. Shoes tend to last a while. ZZP has a disc conversion kit for the Sonic, wish they had one for IONs :(

:cowsmile:
 
#38 · (Edited)
It's $325?! Dagum. Okay I might just do the ZZP one then too. I'll still pop for the front one though, it's pretty cheap. As for the springs, it'll be okay. There will be a drop from where I am so that's good enough. I still want a nice ride and don't know if SSC is just going to drop me and run harsh. FE3s for sure won't seeing as they're factory.

Already did my front brakes last year, was in the initial post of this thread. StopTech slotted rotors and Hawk HPS pads. Haven't done the rears yet (in case you didn't know - ION 1-3 have lameo drums lol). Going to open them and see how they're doing. Shoes tend to last a while. ZZP has a disc conversion kit for the Sonic, wish they had one for IONs


Ya for me the hardcore was 265$ and the 3X was 285$ plus 52$ shipping.

ZZP is 185$ plus 15$ shipping and is equivalent to the hardcore.
 
#43 ·
Actually Chicken man I upgraded to 17s. Tires are Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3 Asymmetric P225/45/R17 - same aspect ratio as my stock P205/50/R16 just wider.

Will the lower profile make it rough? Currently on stock it feels about the same.

:cowsmile:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top