[BKTU1]

I know a little bit about turbo charged cars but i dont really know much about supercharged cars or superchargers in general. What is the diference between the two and is either one better than the other?

 

[cromus]

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question122.htm

 

[Sp00ner]

I know a little bit about turbo charged cars but i dont really know much about supercharged cars or superchargers in general. What is the diference between the two and is either one better than the other?

There's alot of information to cover there. Anything in specific you want to know?

There's the basics:
Turbos are exhaust driven, resulting in the familiar phrase 'turbo-lag' as the exhuast gas spins the turbos faster. Superchargers are engine driven, resulting in less lag and boost available at lower rpms.

The basic idea is the same, use an air compressor to stuff air into the intake resulting in higher than atmospheric pressure to feed the engine.

There are some advantages in turbos, since they are capturing lost heat energy and using that to drive the compressor that feeds the engine. The only power cost to a turbo is the backpressure that results at lower rpms. While the supercharger takes actual engine horsepower to turn it, particuarly at high rpm's. The supercharger has an advantage, particuarly in a street engine, due to it's general simplicity, and it's ability to deliver boost sooner.

Alot of people prefer turbos, and in full out race applications I would have to say that it is superior in almost every way. For a street driven car, that is primarily a daily driver, a supercharger is usually easier to live with.



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[slt]

A big benifit to a turbo is that you hit full boost when it spools up and hold that untill redline. In many applications, you get a brief spike when it spools up which gives you a nice kick in the ass. With my Evo , it spikes around 23psi at 3500rpm and holds 20psi untill redline. The downside here is that untill the turbo spools, your diving with a low compression engine with a clogged exhuast. As long as you keep it on boost, all is fine. Fall off boost, though, and the car is a dog. This can make daily driving, especially in traffic, a pain in the ass, especially with a large turbo. If you look at the dyno charts of large tubo cars, like 1000hp Supras, the turbo may not spool up untill 5-6,000rpm. Great for the track, totally unstreetable, though.

With a supercharger, boost builds with engine speed, so you dont reach max psi untill redline. Benifit is that you're never off-boost, so you retain low end power. Day to day driving in traffic and what not is easier.

 

[macncheese]

that's why i have a tiny turbo on my dodge. lol. i beat up a nissan frontier today on 5psi (my boost controller is having issues). i make that 5psi at just over 2000 rpms, so no issue there!
tony

 

[MrCleanY0]

I love those turbo dodge's. A while back I was just about ready to swap the 2.5 out of my shadow for a 2.2 turb. that would have been awsome.

 

[macncheese]

do you still have the shadow? going carb/tpi to turbo isn't exactly simple, but it isn't difficult either. i'm about to swap over a mini van to turbo. look out, guys.

tony

 

[goofyguy]

thats not entirely true. The supercharger makes more boost as you get to redline but Ours hits the desired point at 4500 where it holds at 12psi. A smaller pulley will allow it to get even lower like 2500 is what Im aiming for. at 1500rpms you make 2psi and it climbs quick. A turbo also runs off exhaust so its building power off waste. Where a super uses the motor to make power ya know it takes to makes.

 

[Srt4u2envy]

With a turbo, you can adjust boost at the touch of a button or a turn of a knob. Huge advantage.

And the previous statement by sp00ner.. What do you see top fuel and funny cars running on? Blowers, why? cuz its more efficient to keep the exhaust flowing.

In my eyes boost is boost, anyway it comes its all good. I personally like turbos, but they can be very moody sometimes

 

[macncheese]

hmmm, i'm really thinking that funny cars aren't very concerned with efficiency. top fuel dragsters cost something like $5000 just to get down the track. that's if all the equipment is paid for and everybody works for free. it has a lot more to do with a 4 second quarter mile run not leaving much time for a turbo to spool up. eh?
tony

 

[Sp00ner]

I think the simplicity is what the go for in top fuel. They have to rebuild that motor after every run. I know that top fuelers fun superchargers, but it seems that any type of racing (track racing/road racing) turbos are the only way to go. I'm not sure why it works out like that. I wouldn't imagine it's the spooling factor, they sit at the line with their throttle stops holding around 6k before launch, I think that would spool the turbo just fine. The fact that they don't use a common exhaust pipe after the headers is most likely the reason, nothing to hook a turbo to. Which I supposed relates the statement by Srt and the free flowing exhaust path, not to mention that the race is over in 4 seconds as opposed to 4 hours. Wouldn't a given turbo system weigh a bit more than a supercharger system as well?



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[myredline]

For a daily driver I would only have a supercharger. Good power all the way around and when some punk wants to race you don't have to drop down a few gears to get in the power band.

Now don't get me wrong I love turbos, I have built turbo Cav's, rabbits, cabbys, jettas, celica's, etc. and my pride and joy my 91 MR2. Only prob is if you have large turbos they make so much heat is not funny. Which always leads to probs. Plus don't plan on getting more the 100,000 to 120 out of a turbo.(thats if your good to it) But on the bright side if you want gas mileage just stay off the boost and my 400+whp MR2 will get 35 highway and 26 city. The Redline----ha maybe 18 city and 24 highway.

Shawn

 

[Sp00ner]

Superchargers are actually better for gas mileage, the Redline is tested for 29 Hwy. In all reality though, no forced induction setup is much better or worse for gas mileage. I think turbos have a little more development on them, supercharger development for production cars has just started to pick up steam again in the last few years. Thank you Pontiac.



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[slt]

thats not entirely true. The supercharger makes more boost as you get to redline but Ours hits the desired point at 4500 where it holds at 12psi.

Does it bleed off boost after 4500? Can we fix that? Stock evos peak at 19 and taper off to 16psi at redline. When driving, it feels like they fall on their face. Simply holding 19 untill redline helps alot. It sounds like we have somewhat of the same issure here. If we could keep building boost past 4500 and peak at say 16+psi, there would be alot more top end. Someone needs to come out with an ECU reflash for this car.

 

[Sp00ner]

No, it bleeds boost at 6,000. People pulled the boost control solenoid to try to get some power above 6k, but met with mixed results.



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[myredline]

with supercharger you are always using the motor to drive the charger. And the Redline tested at 29 is a joke. I have driving this on road trips of more than 700 miles and the best that I could get out of mine was 22 on the highway. With Turbo if you stay out of the boost you don't use it. You are driving on just the motor.

 

[Sp00ner]

Well, the last 2 days that I've been trying to get good mileage I'm getting around 25 in Chicago rush hour. The turbo is ALWAYS blocking up the exhaust path. The mpg number put on a car is legally tested for. Just becuase you don't get good mileage dosen't mean other people dont. Someone was reporting around 27mpg. AND you are not always using the motor to drive the charger. Only under large throttle increases.. that's what the bypass valve is for. The supercharger actually windmills under vacuum conditions. Stick a potato in one side of your exhaust path and that's what an engine gets off boost in a turbo car.



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[myredline]

"The result? The turbocharged engine stands to produce more peak horsepower than a comparable supercharged engine, mostly because the turbo does not require any power from the crankshaft. Also, the turbocharged engine will typically run much quieter than a supercharged engine since the turbo has no gears, belts or pulleys and because the turbo itself muffles the exhaust. And while many superchargers are large, heavy devices (we've all seen Roots-type blowers sticking up through the hoods of muscle cars), the turbocharger is a relatively small package - a turbo capable of producing 600 horsepower can weigh only 15 pounds and be easily held in one hand. It is for these reasons that turbocharging has become increasingly popular with both OE and aftermarket manufacturers. Automakers can produce lightweight vehicles with good fuel economy yet excellent power thanks to the turbo. The aftermarket manufacturers have jumped into the game, offering larger turbocharger "upgrades" in place of factory turbos, or even complete turbo "kits" to convert a naturally-aspirated vehicle to turbocharged configuration. One question we hear quite often at SCC is whether a normally-aspirated engine can be turbocharged. Any engine can be turbocharged, and there are a number of turbo kits available to allow you to do this to a variety of vehicles. However, if you cannot locate a kit for your vehicle (or you choose not to purchase an existing kit), you can build a custom installation yourself."
This was written by Sport Compact Car Magazine
From an article about the differance between superchargers and turbos.

This being one of the main reasons auto manuf. use more turbos than supercharges. Like esp. on diesel applications.

Don't get me wrong I love the redline and think that for everyday driving the super is a better way to go.

 

[myredline]

Also I have seen more people who are saying that they are getting bad gas mileage then those who say its good.

 

[MotorMouth]

with supercharger you are always using the motor to drive the charger. And the Redline tested at 29 is a joke. I have driving this on road trips of more than 700 miles and the best that I could get out of mine was 22 on the highway. With Turbo if you stay out of the boost you don't use it. You are driving on just the motor.

Actually when the motor is at part throttle and there is a vacuum condition in the manifold the supercharger's rotors are creating very little parisitic loss because there is no load on them. They are spinning in a vacuum, kind of like being in space.

The turbocharged engine stands to produce more peak horsepower than a comparable supercharged engine, mostly because the turbo does not require any power from the crankshaft

That is a funny line because while at the extreeme edge of internal combustion engines the 8,000+ hp top fuel motors are supercharged