Turbocharger / Supercharger
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Well the final version of the ion is going to be supercharged. I guess GM loves superchargers 
the supercharging mechanism makes much more sense to me than turbo charging. and from what i understand would turbocharging cause some back pressure in the exhaust system?
also, it seems to me torque boost in the low rpm's is pretty handy, as in street driving i'd tend to keep the engine running in the lower half of the tach.
also, it seems to me torque boost in the low rpm's is pretty handy, as in street driving i'd tend to keep the engine running in the lower half of the tach.
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The only real problems with a supercharger is that you can't turn it off....rjp said:
With a turbo \, you can stay out of the boost if you want, which saves fuel and prolongs engine life, with a supercharger, you can have problems launching the car if it's tuned for high rpm power, or problems with getting as much power as you think you should have if it's tuned for low rpm torque that is reasonable...
Dale
couldn't you just disengage the belt driving the super's turbine? my friend just bought a 97 mitsubishi eclipse gsx. he said that the turbo doesn't engage until 3500 rpms. i would assume they have some control circuit and just have some sort of linkage between the two turbines that you can (dis)engage. so i don't see why the same thing wouldn't work with a super.Dale Seeley said:
also, will the redline have the supercharger equivalent of the cool little turbo gauge that i've seen in some cars? i think they're teh shit.
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rjp said:
http://www.howthingswork.com
btw, don't assume anything, assumptions are usually wrong... I've learned that the hard way, many times over...
i couldn't find supercharger info on there. i see how the turbo "doesn't engage" although it doesn't quite seem to make sense to me. since assuming is bad, i'll infer that a supercharger instead of running off of a shaft from the exhaust turbine runs off some sort of belt or gear system. maybe supercharger is hidden somewhere there, but as for now i'm jsut having fun reading random car articles.Dale Seeley said:
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simple
a turbo must 'spool' or spin fast enough to create boost.
this often takes place in higher RPM (depending on size of turbo, but lets use a standard .60/.48 T3) this will usually 'spool' or start creating boost by 3500RPM on a 4cyl. and it gives you that nice thing known as 'turbo lag' thats the time between idle and when the turbo has started to create boost. as for the back pressure, the boost level and power from the boost would negate any negative aspects of the minute ammount of back pressure that the turbine creates.
a supercharger is directly attached to the cars crank shaft VIA a belt, just like your AC system or altinator when the car is on, it is spinning. because it is always spinning it is usually creating boost by 1000rpm/1500rpm (or idle of the supercharger is big enough)
and since it is always spinning there is no turbo lag.
since the Redline is set up to be a road track car, the supercharger is the best solution. since there is no 'keeping' it spooled with the constant slowing down and speeding up, the power is always there. the higher you rev the engine, the more boost the blower makes.
a turbo must 'spool' or spin fast enough to create boost.
this often takes place in higher RPM (depending on size of turbo, but lets use a standard .60/.48 T3) this will usually 'spool' or start creating boost by 3500RPM on a 4cyl. and it gives you that nice thing known as 'turbo lag' thats the time between idle and when the turbo has started to create boost. as for the back pressure, the boost level and power from the boost would negate any negative aspects of the minute ammount of back pressure that the turbine creates.
a supercharger is directly attached to the cars crank shaft VIA a belt, just like your AC system or altinator when the car is on, it is spinning. because it is always spinning it is usually creating boost by 1000rpm/1500rpm (or idle of the supercharger is big enough)
and since it is always spinning there is no turbo lag.
since the Redline is set up to be a road track car, the supercharger is the best solution. since there is no 'keeping' it spooled with the constant slowing down and speeding up, the power is always there. the higher you rev the engine, the more boost the blower makes.
so even with the supercharger it's speed relates to rpm's? i was under the impression that the belt that most systems run on have some sort of constant velocity thingy. but that was after i drained my battery, drove home in second. my mom told me that it was stupid of me, but since i had no highway on the way home from work, i figured it would simulate highway driving for the charging. before, i thought it was related to engine speed, but my mom seems to have more practical experience with things like dead battery, so i just figured she was right.
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And people say I'm never wrong
The following clears up a couple misconceptions I had, and points out my predisposition to the old muscle car super chargers...
From an Eaton representitive
"The way the supercharger for the ION (as with all Eaton supercharger
applications) is that a bypass valve is utilized for periods of operation without
boost. The ION bypass valve has duel inputs, vacuum or pressure. The vacuum
side of the actuator is connected the inlet of the supercharger between the TB
and the rotors, based on the vacuum level in the inlet (higher at part/closed
throttle) the bypass valve opens. When open the bypass allows the "excess" air
that the supercharger pumps due to its direct coupling to recirculate. This
reduces the parasitic losses to less than 0.5hp in most instances and allows for
operation nearly transparent to a standard NA engine. The pressure side of the
actuator is solenoid controlled and allows via the PCM boost to be
reduced/regulated. From a traction control standpoint this could be used as a
boost controlling feature. Other applications utilize this feature to reduce the
boost level at shift points or in reverse to improve transmission durability
(automatic applications - GM 3800, Ford Lightning, etc). "
This makes me want the car even more... maybe my wife will get stuck with the SRT-4....
Dale
The following clears up a couple misconceptions I had, and points out my predisposition to the old muscle car super chargers...
From an Eaton representitive
"The way the supercharger for the ION (as with all Eaton supercharger
applications) is that a bypass valve is utilized for periods of operation without
boost. The ION bypass valve has duel inputs, vacuum or pressure. The vacuum
side of the actuator is connected the inlet of the supercharger between the TB
and the rotors, based on the vacuum level in the inlet (higher at part/closed
throttle) the bypass valve opens. When open the bypass allows the "excess" air
that the supercharger pumps due to its direct coupling to recirculate. This
reduces the parasitic losses to less than 0.5hp in most instances and allows for
operation nearly transparent to a standard NA engine. The pressure side of the
actuator is solenoid controlled and allows via the PCM boost to be
reduced/regulated. From a traction control standpoint this could be used as a
boost controlling feature. Other applications utilize this feature to reduce the
boost level at shift points or in reverse to improve transmission durability
(automatic applications - GM 3800, Ford Lightning, etc). "
This makes me want the car even more... maybe my wife will get stuck with the SRT-4....
Dale
Sorry to be dragging out an old topic.
Since nobody mentioned this and correct me if I am wrong, it's often a good idea to let the turbocharger spin down a little before you shut off the engine, I don't know about you guys, but that could be quite a hassel to me if I am in a hurry. Not to mention possiblity some old lady calling you in as suspicious in the Neighborhood watch.
Since nobody mentioned this and correct me if I am wrong, it's often a good idea to let the turbocharger spin down a little before you shut off the engine, I don't know about you guys, but that could be quite a hassel to me if I am in a hurry. Not to mention possiblity some old lady calling you in as suspicious in the Neighborhood watch.
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That's what a turbo timer is for. You have the ability to physicaly turn the key to the off postion and take the key out of the ignition and the car will remain to run at idle for a time that you specify. Three minutes seems to be sufficant.Hawflake said:
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I enjoy the constant power of the supercharger... but I also wouldnt mind throwing one of these on:
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I know, but thats a lot of $$
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