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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking at upgrading to a used TVS 1320. I currently have opt b, dual pass, phenolic spacer, fmhe, header, downpipe, trans mounts. I realize that running a full cat back would be beneficial but wanted to see where I went with the car before upgrading that.

I don't have access to E85. I run 91 because it's the most abundant, there is 94 but not at most gas stations. Currently I do not run methanol injection either.

Ive read a lot of mixed reviews about tvs. Would it still be beneficial to run a TVS 1320? Would it make much more power than an m62 with a 2.9, or a 2.9 with meth?

I'd like to eventually land in the 300-320 whp area. Not interested in going turbo.
 

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The TV'S will get you to 300 with a 3.0 pulley and head and cam work getting a full exhaust would be better then just a cat back.. but be prepared for your exhaust to be significantly louder no matter what modifications you make..
The m62 is really inefficient with a 2.9 pulley and if your considering a TVS i wouldn't think of doing anything with the m62..

Water/meth is for running hard pulls really... helps with keeping temps down so you can keep your timing advanced and with a slight octane boost..
 

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Should be fine to get in the neighborhood of 300 on 94 alone. You'll need a good tune and a way to monitor knock.

Every cooling mod should be on the car, and plugs should be gapped to 0.032.

Exhaust work should be done from the head back. Catback is the least restriction. And oh yes, it will be loud and nasty.

Best exhaust mod on an LSJ is a turbo.

ETA: The M62 is less efficient than a TVS, even on stock pulley. Anything less than a 3.0 is has diminishing returns on a M62 due to charge heating.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
My understanding is that head and exhaust work can be done after installing the TVS, you just wouldn't get the full potential of TVS until it's done. Correct?
If a TVS has run a smaller pulley (2.7") would you be concerned?
The current owner is also unsure if methanol has been run through it. Ive read mixed reviews about the effect of meth on bearings and rotors. Is that something to be concerned about?
The reason I'm asking is that I won't be able to see the supercharger prior to purchasing, it would have be shipped.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Would running the TVS without a full exhaust and head work put excessive strain on the engine?
 

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You can always just pulley up from the 2.7 until you're ready.

From what I read when coming to the decision to go turbo, the TVS shines the most when the car has a ported head, cams, header/downpipe, and of course E85.

Now on a 3.1 or 2.9 pulley, the car will still be stout, but you'll be limited on how much timing you can run by your fuel. More timing = more power. From what I've seen, TVS cars make the most power by dropping pulley size and revving high. Keep in mind however, that any supercharger is a parasitic drag, and the air-to-water aftercooler is no match for a air-to-air intercooler and a turbo when it comes to charge temps. Efficiency is the name of the game.

As far as exhaust, I'd at least go mid-length header/downpipe if not long tube. The catback can stay stock for now. I didn't see any dyno proven gain when I swapped from the stocker to the ZZP 2.5" catback. Also, one of the highest horsepower TVS cars had a 2.5" exhaust for a while. You don't need a sewer pipe with a supercharger like you do with a turbo.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ya, I currently have all of the cooling mods, and a ceramic coated midlength header and a downpipe.
Thats basically the info that i foubd too. I appreciate the info, it's hard to find good info because there are lot of mixed opinions in the archives on the forum.
The owner said that the TVS now has a 3", but I've heard that 2.7" can over spin the blower. Do you have any knowledge about that?
I've also been trying to pick through the forums to figure out if meth ruins rotors and bearings.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
This blower previously had a 2.7" but he doesn't know how long it was run for or if methanol was run through it because it was before he owned it.
 

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Running meth has been said to ruin engines and it really depends on a lot of factors.. the ecotec engine block is mostly aluminum and a lot of the components in the supercharger are aluminium as well.. when your using meth its actually a mixture of water and methanol... it's the water that will cause corrosion over time but aluminum is resistant to it... there have been many people in this forum that run meth and i haven't seen any negative posts about using it...

With your concerns about the 2,7 pulley on the m62 you should be fine but that really depends on the tune that the car currently has...

If your looking for really good info on comparisons between the m62 and TVS and accompanying mods GMredline did a lot of write ups about his car with dyno results... I will try to dig thru the forums later and post a link in this thread
 

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As far as overspinning the blower, people do that on the M62 with any pulley smaller than a 2.8. It happens for a few seconds at a time, and I've never seen any data that says it hurts them.

Now sustained operation at 7,000 rpm... that's another story. Yeah, don't do that.

The main concern with methanol is whether or not it was sprayed pre-blower. The water/methanol mixture can supposedly strip the rotors of their coating. I haven't seen any conclusive data to show whether or not it does so.

If you have any concerns, you can always send the blower off and have it rebuilt before install.
 

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If you are running 91oc you will want to stay with the 3.1 on the tvs. I’m basically the same setup as you with tvs and a 2.7, we are actually limiting boost on 93oc to avoid knock till spring when I go back to e85. Even with that the tvs opens up a world of fun, I’ve had it on for 8months and am still tweaking the tune. All in all if I went back in time i would have stayed with my 2.7 m62 until I had enough for turbo.

How much you paying for tvs.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ya, I would be 91. Thanks for pointing that out, I was curious about that. The blower has a 3.0 on it apparently. So I would either need to invest in meth injection, or run a bigger pulley.
What type of numbers are you putting down on that set up?
He is asking 1450 CAD. I'm wondering though what it would cost if the bearings need to be replaced?
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I currently don't have any gauges to monitor knock or afr, is it safe to run a TVS without them for now? Assuming a tuner can measure this during the tune. I probably would wait until black Friday to buy them. I daily the car, so I don't do a lot of back to back pulls or really push it.
 

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I currently don't have any gauges to monitor knock or afr, is it safe to run a TVS without them for now? Assuming a tuner can measure this during the tune. I probably would wait until black Friday to buy them. I daily the car, so I don't do a lot of back to back pulls or really push it.
Gauge monitors should really be considered sooner than later and are not really a necessary upgrade but the info you get from them are seriously beneficial... I run dual aeroforce interceptor gauges and have zero regrets or issues with them.. they monitor almost all engine functions , read and clear DTCs and are plug and play it really doesn't get any better...
I'm about about to get AEM wideband AFR and starting to get into learning HPT ..

Waiting for a black Friday special on gauges might not get you the savings your expecting.. I don't ever remember seeing them discounted
 

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At least get an Interceptor. You can even set the annunciators as a warning light for a certain KR number. The LSJ does a good job of aggressively pulling timing when the car senses knock. The only problem is that it will only pull a certain amount. Somewhere between 5-8 degrees depending on what the car is doing. If you go beyond that limit for some reason ( too much boost, too much timing, or bad fuel ), you can wind up with holes in your pistons.

A TVS is not a bolt-on upgrade. It'll require an experienced tuner who knows what they're doing to get the best result. It's not a 3 pulls on the dyno and you're done kinda thing. You'll need part-throttle tuning and timing tuning.

I have more time in my timing tables than any other part of my tune. Getting it right takes time that most tuners aren't gonna wanna spend.

Since even the 3.0 pulley will likely put you over 17psi, you'll need to strongly consider a BRFPS, or else you'll have too much of a pressure differential across the injectors, and the car won't properly control fueling past 17psi.

Not trying to scare you, just pointing out what needs to happen when you plan to push an engine to 150% of the output it came with from the factory. Once you get to 200% like me, you'll wind up with an Interceptor, wideband, electronic boost controller, ethanol sensor, and HPTuners.

Cheap, Reliable, Fast - Pick Two
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Haha the only part that scares me there is the tuning. I found 2 shops near me that have dynos, neither have experience with LSJ's. Both told me for zzp stage 3 that I may as well get the can tune, and then they'll tweak it. One shop told me they could do a custom tune for $280....an hour haha, I laughed.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
So if I were to bolt up a 3.1, based off of what I've read, I shouldn't need a brfps, correct? But along the lines of what redline1313's said earlier, would a TVS be worth the money over an m62 with a 2.9 if I wasn't really taking full advantage if the TVS?
I've also read that the TVS without a ported head just puts a lot of strain on the engine. In one thread people were saying it will just kill the engine sooner, in other threads people were saying that the ported head would obviously flow better, have less restriction and make better power, but isnt be necessary.

It's hard finding reliable info on the forums, redline forum is not as bad as the cobalt ones but still not easy. Majority of the threads about LSJ get derailed or have incorrect info. I try to find names of people who know a lot about our cars, but then when they disagree, I get confused haha.
 

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I’m running stock engine with all cooling with a tvs on 2.7 but we are pulling boost because I’m running 93oc no ported head, no return, stock pump. At the moment I’m running 18psi but when it gets warm out I have a e85 pump and brfps and will be back on e85 at about 24psi
 

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Look at it this way, any added power above stock will reduce engine/drivetrain life to some degree. How much additional wear depends on setup and how the car is driven.

For instance, take my car. It makes 216 more horsepower ( 421 ) at the wheels than it came rated at the crank ( 205 ) from the factory. It makes more than double the horsepower GM intended it to, and has done so for the last 7,000 miles without issue. I don't beat on the car everywhere I go like a silly teenager ( mainly because I'm 35 ), but when I'm on the throttle, I do not go easy on the car. In order to get away with that, I pay attention to all the details, proper tuning, fueling, maintenance, etc...

Basically it comes down to how you treat the car and how much effort you put into making sure everything works right.

As far as running a TVS, it's an upgrade over the M62 in every way. You put 0.3L more air into the intake with every revolution at a better adiabatic efficiency, i.e. lower IAT2s. It is my belief that a properly setup TVS car isn't going to blow up any more than a M62 car. Starve either one of fuel or run too much timing, and the results will be the same.

You already have a mid-length header and downpipe, so I think you're alright on exhaust for a 3.0 pulley or above on a TVS.

The BRFPS helps keep the pressure differential across the injector more reasonable. In a naturally aspirated car, the injector only has to overcome 14.5 psi with a rail pressure of 58 psi. On a TVS car making 20 pounds of boost, the injector has to overcome 34.5 psi at a rail pressure of 58 psi. With a BRFPS at a 1:1 ratio and a base pressure of 48psi, the injector will now have 68 psi at the rail to overcome the 34.5 psi in the manifold. It helps keep IDC down.
 
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