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I can see being loyal to the Saturn brand but come on. Honda has been in the sport compact scene for a long time now and Saturn just released a car worthy of driving for the 2004 model year. I work at a Saturn dealership and I have driven Redline IONs and VUEs countless times. Not to say that the Redline Ion isn't fun but come on, if you were to race a honda it would not be fair. Unless they were using forced induction you really have nothing to be proud of. Now if you were to take that s/c off of there it would be no contest, a Honda 2.2L (such as the H22 from the Prelude) would flat out kill your Saturn. I honestly like the Redline ION and I think that when GM engineers can figure out how to get rid of some problems and still offer the car at around $20,000 it will be one hell of a car. I don't want to come off as some jerk who is just talking sh*t, but lay off of the Hondas. What gets me the most though is Saturn uses the HONDA 3.5L V6 in the VUE and a lot of people on here seem to act like Hondas are nothing but junk. I would really like to here some of your replies. Again, I DO NOT want to come off like a jerk. All I am saying is ease up on the Honda crowd.
 

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91ACCORDDX said:
I can see being loyal to the Saturn brand but come on. Honda has been in the sport compact scene for a long time now and Saturn just released a car worthy of driving for the 2004 model year. I work at a Saturn dealership and I have driven Redline IONs and VUEs countless times. Not to say that the Redline Ion isn't fun but come on, if you were to race a honda it would not be fair. Unless they were using forced induction you really have nothing to be proud of. Now if you were to take that s/c off of there it would be no contest, a Honda 2.2L (such as the H22 from the Prelude) would flat out kill your Saturn. I honestly like the Redline ION and I think that when GM engineers can figure out how to get rid of some problems and still offer the car at around $20,000 it will be one hell of a car. I don't want to come off as some jerk who is just talking sh*t, but lay off of the Hondas. What gets me the most though is Saturn uses the HONDA 3.5L V6 in the VUE and a lot of people on here seem to act like Hondas are nothing but junk. I would really like to here some of your replies. Again, I DO NOT want to come off like a jerk. All I am saying is ease up on the Honda crowd.
I don't think these comments are as much directed to Honda as to what they call "Ricer" cars, since a large majority of them are Hondas. As least for me, nothing annoys me more than a car that is all show and no go. What good is it to put a coffee can on your exhaust when you are driving a 4-cylinder around, I mean, other than to create a huge amount of noise pollution.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I am fully aware of the fact that a lot of Hondas are all riced out but that doesn't mean all of them are. A small percentage of Honda driver are actually going for the clean look, more performance basedtheme now, hopefully this look catches on kind of like the rice look did. Some honda drivers are just enthusiasts that couldn't afford the real sports cars.
 

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In our Honda man's defense, SOME hondas really do come off very clean. I know a kid with a silver SI that's lowered & has some big rims, and it looks very classy. However, most are very ricey.

As far as the whole "F/I vs. N/A" arguement, a Honda Civic SI costs roughly as much as a Redline but cannot put up anywhere NEAR the performance. That's why we rag on them so.
 

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Most of the time that we are saying something against the Hondas and other imports on here, we are talking down to the people that rice their cars out like Hawflake said. These are the people that think their car is so good and so fast when really it isn't, unless they have actually done some good performance work to actually make it fast. There are a lot of the people driving civics out there that just bolt on a body kit, spoiler, exhaust, and euro lights and think their car is fast. This is the crowd that we're directing our comments towards. If one of these cars happens to beat us that has some serious work put into it, we don't really like that happening, but we can respect what they have done I hope.
I don't mean to be speaking for everyone, I'm just giving my opinion and thoughts on the situation. So no offense to anyone's views or anything like that.

Also, another reason we talk is because we want the domestics to start over taking the import tuners in this country and hopefully become the better choice of car to get.
 

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That's funny becuase I don't see much honda bashing. I do see the odd story about racing a Civic or RSX. Would you rather we don't comment on a race? seems to me that most of the bashing is on the SRT4 which is a similar car with forced air. I would never bash a Honda but if I beat a Honda, Dodge, Subaru, VW etc. I might post it.
It does seem that some people don't like the riced Hondas with annoying exhaust. plus there are a lot of after-market Hondas out there with Turbos. The engine in the Vue RL is great and most people here would admit that. Fact of the matter is that most people on here have Ions.
 

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Here's a good one for ya, who do you think the kids with the mainly stock civics and accords are out looking for? Caviliers, Saturns, Sunfires, and cars JUST like the ones we drive. Do you know how many jag-offs in Civics with a 4" fart can muffler would follow me down the road, racing me off every stoplight, simply due to the fact they couldn't beat most other cars? Yea... just in case you DON'T know, it's ALOT. So you know what time it is now? It's time to make all those same little Honda kids, that thump their chests talking about hp/L and all that other nonsense, to feel just as shitty. With me, it's a vendetta. I go out of my way to chase down every single Honda with a fart can that I can find, and embarass them, hopefully with their friends in the car.

Saturn uses a Honda motor in the Vue, becuase Honda is pathetic at building diesels with any kind of torque. So it was a trade, one that favored GM, might I point out.

I'm not sure what price point you're looking at with the Redline, but I personally paid just over $18,000 for a brand new '05. Most of the people here are paying $16,000 for 04's and around $20,000 for '05s. So they already are.

The engine from the Prelude? The 2.2 Ecotec puts out around 168hp to the crank. What's the Prelude, 170? Dosen't sound like a slaughter to me, not to mention you're comparing a SPORT-compact engine to a sedan engine. Perhaps you should look at the VVT version of the Ecotec that puts out 175hp, so they say. Gotta love underrating in American car engines.

Here's a better comparison, the 1.9 in the last generation Saturn SC2, which put out 124hp, to the Honda Civic, which is actually in the same class. Which put out the same horsepower, 125, yet required 2,000 rpms more to get the same horsepower. Any Civic (non-Si) out there that was stock was getting beat by 5spd Saturns with the 1.9 DOHC.

Next, let me know when the last time the Civic won Showroom Stock, the Saturn SC2 did it like 2 of the last 4 years, I believe the Neon is the one that took the other 2 years.

People are 'hating' on Hondas because the culture that surrounds those cars, is one of idiocy. Plus, people like you come in, say that they aren't being assholes, and then they proceed to talk down every aspect of our engine, drivetrain, chassis, suspension, etc.

Bottom line: You bring me a $20,000 Honda, and I'll send you home with a loss. It's as easy as that. My sub-$20,000 investment has me running with Imprezas, RSX-Ss, SRTs, and a few othe cars that any Honda for $20,000 can't touch. Sorry man. Last I checked we were bashing each other, the SRT guys and us, not Hondas. We can start if you want!
 

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Spooner, you have such a delicate, eloquent way of completely & totally slaughtering anybody's complaints or naggings. It, to me, is a work of art seeing one of your posts. Well said my friend.
 

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I agree with Spooner RIGHT ON MAN! Honda peeps have been saying stuff about Saturns and how they suck for a while. But once Saturn came out with a decent, excuse me awesom car that can beat most Honda's, they are just jealous. Thats what I say. :) Im not being a jerk that's just my personal opinion! :)
 

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urbanmonkeygod04 said:
Spooner, you have such a delicate, eloquent way of completely & totally slaughtering anybody's complaints or naggings. It, to me, is a work of art seeing one of your posts. Well said my friend.
It's a process of refinement that has taken the better part of 15 years to develop.

You can always tell when someone is about to 'rag' on our cars by the line of:

'First off, I'm not trolling', or 'Just let me say, that I don't hate your cars...'
 

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I personally love hondas. They are great cars built very well. I just don't like most "young kids" who buy and drive them and think they are hotrods. My disdain for said kids has almost caried over into a putrid hatred for the brand. Get all the kids to drive something else and all will be good in the world again.
 

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urbanmonkeygod04 said:
Spooner, you have such a delicate, eloquent way of completely & totally slaughtering anybody's complaints or naggings. It, to me, is a work of art seeing one of your posts. Well said my friend.
Yeah, never argue with Spooner, he doesn't quit until he picks you apart somehow.
 

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91ACCORDDX said:
Now if you were to take that s/c off of there it would be no contest, a Honda 2.2L (such as the H22 from the Prelude) would flat out kill your Saturn.
Don't get me wrong, I love Honda, but that's a pretty rediculous statement.

"Ferrari's suck. If you took the engine out of a 550 Maranello and put replaced it with a Honda Kart engine and put a Lamborghini v12 into an ION, it would kick the Ferrari's ass!"

A Redline Ion is roughly equivilent to a turbo'd Civic. It's essentially an econoline car with a souped-up engine.

(And call me an old Honda Power guy, but I'd take the Civic in that matchup)
 

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bbrazil said:
Don't get me wrong, I love Honda, but that's a pretty rediculous statement.

"Ferrari's suck. If you took the engine out of a 550 Maranello and put replaced it with a Honda Kart engine and put a Lamborghini v12 into an ION, it would kick the Ferrari's ass!"

A Redline Ion is roughly equivilent to a turbo'd Civic. It's essentially an econoline car with a souped-up engine.

(And call me an old Honda Power guy, but I'd take the Civic in that matchup)
It's just funny that he pops in here, at the end of a good war between us and the SRT guys, and asks about ragging on Hondas.

If you want the turbo Civic, you're more than welcome to it. Unless you're gonna dump tons into that crap suspension that they come with, you're gonna be outta luck in a race that does more than go str8! It really would take alot of work on a Civic to make it the same as the Redline. Yes, there sure are some fast Hondas out there, but in the racing world, as of lately, there have been quite a few Honda vs. Saturn duels out there. NOPI Championship, Bonneville salt runs, the Showroom Stock Class of the SCCA, and guess who won all of those? The former Honda drivers for NOPI even jumped ship and are on the Saturn Ion/Cobalt teams now. The NOPI champ and the former Bonneville record holder were both Civics, if I'm not mistaken, and we've done a good job of handing them their asses lately! Key word is lately!
 

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Sp00ner said:
Unless you're gonna dump tons into that crap suspension that they come with, you're gonna be outta luck in a race that does more than go str8!
Yeah, I stuck to straightline speed cuz GM kinda cheated by using an Opel chassis... :)
 

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I know that this is going to be too simplistic for most to understand but here goes. We must hate Hondas, Toyotas, Nissan and all their sister brands because the profits go back to the land of the rising sun and ultimately hurt the american economy. I know that some of these brands make models on our soil, but the profits still go back to Japan. It's called the trickle down effect. There are/was a HUGE amount of suppliers that feed the big 3 (old term) auto makers and supplied tons of jobs for AMERICANS. Less cars being bought means less being built = less parts = less people to make them = less people to supply the parts = less jobs = less money to spend everywhere = less jobs because of reduced business = young americans today can't get shit for a job that pays enough to start a family.

Don't believe me? How many out there are making over $17 an hour? Now, outside this small forum, in greater America, how many over $17/HR jobs are out there? If you know of one in the greater Cleveland area, my step son could use one in a big way.
 

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First I will pick on spooner as much as I damn well please. Pick me apart Im still waiting to see.
Second his reaserch is almost <-- 100% correct pound for pound the honda tuner motors need more rpms to make the exact same power. So the GM powerband is shorter and more capable of using.
Third we mostly dont hate honda. I would love to own one but I will not pay for a name they are too damn expensive. Any motor can run forever with proper maintance. We hate the drivers that think they are kings of the road in thier cars. We like to make them look bad and are Proud of it.
Last as a saturn employee you need to quit and go work across the street becuase we need people who care about the cars we drive working with us.
 

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Hondas are like sex..... loud obnoxious, and slow! lol

Not defending Honda but GM bought ALOT of 3.5L V-Techs for the Saturn Vue and Redline Vue.

In the car buisness.... there are no rules of what engines are bought, just as long as they work and last. Opel= European V-Tech= Honda.... so what. I bet you can't take a stock honda engine and run a s/c and a turbo on it at the same time. You can with ECOTEC! it's been proven. You also can't run 1300hp at the cranck with a stock block on a honda! It's been proven on an ECOTEC. I always see hondas in junk yarks due to high maintance failures or engine lock ups. But I don't hardly see any Saturns there. I support the American economy buy buying American made cars. They have always been bigger, better, more durable and faster. Sorry Honda geek, but you have the wrong forrum to try to back up Hondas. USA!!!!!!!!!!

I agree Goofy! I am a Saturn employee too! Class A Saturn Cert. Tech.
 

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91ACCORDDX said:
I don't want to come off as some jerk who is just talking sh*t, but lay off of the Hondas...
Well after decades of taking shit from the automotive press and import crowd some of us who prefer domestic rides might just be a little cranky. If a little Honda bashing bothers you, imagine how the GM, Ford, and Chrysler employees must feel.
 

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Hondas are the Chevy's of the import scene. Relatively inexpensive and parts are cheap and everywhere and easily swappible between years and models. Don't get me wrong, I'm a GM man through and through but I really like the after market products for the Hondas. It is not so much the flaming of Hondas as they are an easy target b/c you cannot hardly drive 1 mile down any populated road and not see a Honda. Because of the mass amounts on the road, a lot of Honda owners turn up their noses at anything that is not a Honda. Also, I thought the Honda engine was in the new Saturn vans (Relay?) not the Vue?
 
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